This is a REALLY sketchy hand from AP, Everybody read

Somebody PLEASE request this hand history: 170447783

It is a hand involved with Mark Seif at the Mark Seif table at Absolute which I think is EXTREMELY sketchy. It is 3-handed and Mark Seif made the most incredible read 3-handed; a read SO good that it is seemingly impossible. Maybe I am blowing this out of proportion? Who knows? Druff?

Again, hand history 170447783

And post it here. We shall discuss.

########################################################
Stage #170447783: Holdem Normal $50/$100 [ 2005-08-14 15:23:09 ]
Seat 7 - MARK SEIF $1607 in chips
Seat 1 - UNEDUCATED $11046 in chips
Seat 5 - KZRSOZE $18000 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 7] ***
UNEDUCATED - Post small blind $25
KZRSOZE - Post big blind $50
MARK SEIF - Raises $50 to $100
UNEDUCATED - Raises $75 to $150
KZRSOZE - Raises $100 to $200
MARK SEIF - Calls $100
UNEDUCATED - Calls $50
*** FLOP [7s,Js,4h] ***
UNEDUCATED - Checks
KZRSOZE - Bets $50
MARK SEIF - Calls $50
UNEDUCATED - Calls $50
*** TURN [7s,Js,4h,Qh] ***
UNEDUCATED - Checks
KZRSOZE - Bets $100
MARK SEIF - Calls $100
UNEDUCATED - Calls $100
*** RIVER [7s,Js,4h,Qh,3c] ***
UNEDUCATED - Checks
KZRSOZE - Checks
MARK SEIF - Checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
UNEDUCATED - Show cards [9c,Kh]
KZRSOZE - Show cards [As,Ks]
MARK SEIF - Show cards [4c,6c]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($1050) Rake ($2)
Board [7s,Js,4h,Qh,3c]
UNEDUCATED - HI:king high [9c,Kh - P:Kh,B:Qh,B:Js,P:9c,B:7s]
KZRSOZE - HI:ace high [As,Ks - P:As,P:Ks,B:Qh,B:Js,B:7s]
MARK SEIF - Total ($1048) HI:($1048)One pair, fours [4c,6c -
B:4h,P:4c,B:Qh,B:Js,B:7s]

Thank you, David.

Now everyone pay attnetion to this hand.

Mark always had, and miraculously wound up with, the worst possible hand on this board.

He was up against 2 major drawing opponents, and he somehow put us on the only 2 hands that he could have had the SLIGHTEST chance of beating.

Now, I ask of you........IS HE THAT BAD??????

NOTHING wrong there. Had u bet the river and been called then u can argue its a bad call. U bet the turn and hes calling with bottom pair prolly hoping to improve and fold if he misses. Many people call the turn in 3 handed games with bottom pair.

not that bad of a play.. obviously not the best if you like money, but i've definitely seen worse from pros.

Should i have bet the river with ace high against 2 opponents in a large pot???

This is nothing out of the ordinary against Mark Seif. I've seen him call with 8 high and win the pot against someone semi-bluffing with a straight draw that missed.

I think the worst part of this hand is his flop and preflop play. Because he raised preflop he felt he had to call the 100 even though it was capped. After the flop he should have gotten off his hand as 46s is a drawing hand and he hit absolutely no draw at all. It is very weird to say the least.

WOW, you guys are retarded. Number 1 - it wasn't a GREAT READ. He was holding onto a pair trying to improve. I guarantee you he didn't think his pair of shit was good until maybe the river when it got checked down. There is no cheating going on during this hand.

KzR i wrote u a great post about this then my internet screwed up and i lost it.

basically betting the river is usually wrong if u think u have the best hand because if they call u they will have u beat. But after u 4 bet preflop and fired thru on the turn into both of them u have to believe that at least 1 of them has AK beat. So it is now basically i am gonna continue to bet my hand as if it is the nuts and make them call me. this is an easy call with Q10 Kq Qx and a few hands that include a Jack. This is a bit harder of a call with PP smaller than 2nd pair on the brd, or with any bottom pairs.

Hand u bet i think u win. but if u make that bet 100 times in that situation i think u run into hands that call u down at least 75%. and this may change depending on the situation of players and ur table image. U prolly will not get called very often by any pair lower than Js.

If u want to continue to play high I would definitely learn a lil bit on game theory.

"If you want to play high I suggest you learn a little bit on game theory"

People RARELY fold pocket pairs in high limit games.

It's a questionable play but nothing out of the ordinary.

There is NO way i would have made that bet against 2 opponents. I have to think they have AT LEAST a pair and will call me down just for pot odds or whatever, especially if the other folds. HOWEVER, Mark had the ONLY hand that would have NOT CALLED me (most likely). He couldnt beat ANYTHING. The only 2 possible hands that we could have had we did have...2 major drawing hands.

Does this happen often in 3-handed limit? I have played a lot of 3-handed limit, maybe not as much at these limits, but I have never seen anything like this. 3 people going to the river betting and raiisng and Mark Seif, the superstar player who represents the site for whatever reason, wins with nothing.

LOL @ HEEB

game theory covers a lot of situations. not just PP play.

I dont get it, really, he didnt bet on the flop/turn or river...he called figuring you were chasing. He took a questionable risk but really nothing out of the ordinary. The highest limit I play is 10-20 and that shit goes down very often...people call with bottom pair.

Hi KzrSoze,

Mark Seif is a stupid retard when it comes to limit holdem. He has absolutely no idea what he's doing and plays appallingly. That explains why he played the hand like a mongoloid. Also AP probably gives him money to dump at the site.

I have no idea why he has a bracelet at limit holdem.

deleteyou.

Three handed leaves a lot of these situations. These are the spots that players like Dustin relish. force u to call with bttm pair or fold the winner.
U need to really watch ur opponenets and keep track of what it is they are willing to call with. and then try sometimes to even imagine the hands that they could have called the turn with but not the river. If u watch u will see some players will almost always pay to see the turn and hardly never the river. others will call 7 or 8 turn bets on the draw and then fold when they miss. Others will ALWAYS call the river if they call the turn. etc.

This is a BIG advantage i think pros can develop. at a 10 handed table its more cut and dry and u and I can prolly make most of the same decisions a player like Druff makes. Now take it to 3 or 4 handed a top pros understanding of the game and how it is played at intricate levels provide more of an advantage.


u can take it as far as the thinking,
do i cap AK and fire because it

1 its prolly the best hand or a coinflip hand so in a 3 handed pot i want more money in the pot.

2 If i hit the Ace i want to get opponents to play back at me after the flop with smaller aces that may hit,
(if i have A4 and the flop is A 7 2, i am more apt to raise a guy who put a bunch of bets in PREFLOP than i am to 3 bet a guy who CC preflop then CR Flop)
3 I can move my opponents off hands that beat me because nobody is calling me at this table after i 4 bet it without at least middle pair good kicker.

OR

U could just CC prflop with AK for a million diff reasons.

AND thats why IT DEPENDS.

Mark is a personal friend of mine. I really wish people would start giving him some respect. Two bracelets, in different games and still no respect. Mark is a very aggresive player that is not afraid to gamble. We will never know if he would have called with bottom pair if you bet the river do we?.........UGA

exactly...this thread would have been slighty more significant with a bet/call on the river

This is the dumbest thread I have ever seen.

Seif makes a donk play preflop, then plays the next two streets passively but otherwise reasonably.

Why are you going on about a great read???

I am thoroughly baffled by your post.


/Edited "perfectly reasonably" to just "reasonably" because originally I thought MS was in last position postflop.