MezmerizePLZ and ADZ124 collude against JDredd at 100-200 NL, from 2+2

i post under 'dat moose' on ftp... i am not the type of dude to get worked up over online stuff, and this is the first time i've reported someone for collusion.. feel free to read the thread and draw your own conclusions, although the title of my post shows my bias pretty clearly. oh well, if you dont think Mezmerize cheated you = monron



http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=155451

Late December I started becoming decent ‘poker buddies’ with ADZ124 (Matthew Mara). We talked over aim a fair amount and I began to trust him. Late one night, ADZ124 and JDredd were sitting at 100/200, ADZ was sitting out. I sat down not particularly wanting to play heads-up, I had no idea who JDredd was (usually a sign I should play in the game). Before I made a decision to play JDredd heads-up or not, ADZ messaged me over aim that he will play if we swap 50%. I had never swapped with ADZ before, but did not particularly want to play a heads-up match so I accepted the 50% swap. I have never done this before, haven’t done it since and will never do again. I acknowledge it is unethical to swap with a player in the same game.

We played 3 handed for a little, I was down and ADZ was even. After getting a feel for JDredd, I felt confident that I would do well in a heads-up match against him. I told ADZ over aim that I think I have a better edge heads-up, but that he could still keep 50% of the action if he sat out and let me play JDredd alone. He accepted, sat out, and left his computer. I then lost more during the heads up match. The losses from 3 handed and heads up totaled 72k.

This was over 3 months ago, and ADZ seems to have no intentions of paying his debt ($32k). He has shown a “What are you going to do about it” attitude. He claimed I tilted and/or I was colluding with JDredd, and therefore he is relieved of his debts.

Below is our most recent aim conversation, the last time we discussed the matter. (The acutal screen names have been edited.)

Mezmerize: hi
Mezmerize: are you ever going to pay me my $32k
Mezmerize: b/c i'd like to get it asap
Mezmerize: ?
ADZ: i told u from the begining u wudnt get it asap
ADZ: im owed 105 k + too ya know
ADZ: and i just lost 200k
Mezmerize: u are just scaring me
Mezmerize: dodging me on aim
Mezmerize: etc
ADZ: no im not
ADZ: last time we talked
ADZ: u told me to stfu
ADZ: so i was like **** this
Mezmerize: i hope u can see why i am frustrated
Mezmerize: from my view
Mezmerize: u basically told me
Mezmerize: that u were unsure if u were going to pay
ADZ: i told u from the beginning
ADZ: i wasnt gona pay u rite away
ADZ: and u said it was ok
ADZ: didnt u?
Mezmerize: yes but it has been a long time
Mezmerize: i can understand a few days
Mezmerize: even a week
Mezmerize: longer than that just seems like a delay
Mezmerize: i know you have the money
ADZ: trust me im owed over 100k and i dont like it either
ADZ: but wat am i gona do
ADZ: harass the guy?
ADZ: havent got `1 penny yet
Mezmerize: so you are paying me 100% though
ADZ: yes i just want to collect the 105k im owed 1st too to protect myselkf
Mezmerize: i hate that you paying me is delayed by you being owed money that i have nothing to do with
Mezmerize: in my eyes i should start charging you a vig
ADZ: good luck
ADZ: collecting
Mezmerize: exactly
ADZ: ya exactly
ADZ: u cant ****ing do anything
ADZ: so dont say stupid ****
Mezmerize: reputation is everything
Mezmerize: how does this not destroy ur reputation
ADZ: cuz u coulda easily been colluding
ADZ: u dont tell me ur on tilt
Mezmerize: but i wasn't
ADZ: when u clearly are
ADZ: and u do things
ADZ: that i ask u not to do
ADZ: before u do them
Mezmerize: that has nothing to do with anything
ADZ: that end up costing money
Mezmerize: the fact is
Mezmerize: you owe me 32k
Mezmerize: and you are not paying
ADZ: AND
ADZ: u make me sit out
ADZ: so u can HU
Mezmerize: btw
Mezmerize: 1 week please
Mezmerize: or i am going to try to destroy your reputation
ADZ: ok
Mezmerize: sorry to say but money is money
ADZ: good luck
ADZ: to you
Mezmerize: k
Mezmerize: i hope you come to your senses
ADZ: ok
ADZ: good luck to you
ADZ: lol
ADZ: 1 week
ADZ: or u ruin my reputation
ADZ: i will remember that 1
ADZ: halarious
ADZ: so which other players do u cullude with
ADZ: do u think u worry me?
ADZ: if so
ADZ: ur halarious


I obviously should have come forward sooner, and I hope that some of you will not make the same mistake as me.

Eh, I really don't feel Mez intended to be malicious and just wasn't thinking. I agree it's way out of line but have to take intent into account. Don't think he need to be castrated for a one time thing that doesn't appear to have even gone on for long before they went to HU play. By his account he clearly wasn't trying to cheat. Think you're being too hard on him.

I don't understand the "I'm not paying because you were tilted' argument. That may as well have been, "I'll take half if you win" before it starts.

I don't know how you high stakes online players do it. Trusting virtual strangers with 10's of thousands of dollars is madness.

He's clearly a brain surgeon considering that he started a thread on 2+2 about how he colluded in the 100/200 game.

As someone in that thread said, it's like complaining to the cops that someone cheated you on a drug deal. Strangely enough, that actually happens all the time.

-B

what Mezmerize did is 100% illegal and I'm glad you reported him. He has to be the biggest moron on the planet to go on 2 + 2 and blantantly admit to doing this.

Isn't some Canadian poster on here a friend of ADZ in real life?

I definitely don't want to be known as a monron.

When they set themselves up like that it's almost like teasing the retarded kid at recess.

a lot of high stakes players have said the same thing on 2+2. If you honestly believe this then I feel sorry for you. It is so obviously cheating, calling it anything else (such as: a mistake, a misunderstanding, him being pressured into it by adz) is insane. It is 100% collusion and both ADZ and MezmerizePLZ should have their accounts banned. Any other opinion is absurd.


Its simple.. If you are JDredd, would you play if you know that the other 2 guys are swapping 50%?? The answer is almost certainly no. And more importantly, are you ok with playing 3 handed knowing that sometimes your 2 opponents will be swapping action? (and i mean are you ok with the specific instances where your opponents are swapping, not the overall picture of it being +ev to play 3 handed since this situation rarely comes up.)


Personally if i'm playing 3 handed and I find out the other 2 dudes have been swapping 50% i am going to be livid. any other response is absurd.

I am on forum tilt over this, it's the first time i've ever reported someone for collusion. I just cant believe people can defend Mesmerize's actions here, it is really insane to me..

guys the 'n' key is nowhere near the 'r' key on a keyboard.... you can draw your own conclusions, but theres no need to derail the thread. also if you search my history i am positive i have used the word monron in the past, probably more than once.

poker is all about cheating people. what's the big deal here anyway?

Let's be clear I said it's wrong. He came out and said he was wrong though it's not like this was discovered from some other method. Him swapping 50% is NOT the same as them sharing hole cards, he was trying to reduce variance and take money from the perceived weak spot in the game. I've played in games with good buddies of mine and while we don't take each others action in the game or check down we also play more straightforward against one another. That's not collusion and it was never spoken it's just how it works out. Mem took this too another level which while crossing the ethical lines does not make it as bad as actually sharing information against him. That said if JDredd who is undoubtedly aware of this now was up in arms over it I'd completely understand and if Stars banned both Mem & ADZ I wouldn't care. I just don't understand why you're on such massive tilt over this.

one of the reasons im on massive tilt about this is i play shorthanded all the time, and i never swap a % with someone else in the game, and since this sort of behavior goes on a lot i am the one getting fucked in the long-term. There's nothing that can be done but if a dude is dumb enough to admit to collusion then he deserves to be punished, instead of other high-limit players having his back and saying its ok he didnt know it was wrong..

All you have to do is put yourself in JDredd's shoes and look at the situation.. And is ignorance an excuse??? Just because the dude didnt realize the magnitude of his 'crime' doesn't mean it's ok.

I mean I'm sure he'd be less forgiving if he hadn't book a nice win but if he's not going to go after Mem over this which would be conceivable for him to do don't know why you're going to carry the torch. What do you want done? He came out and admitted what he did, he said it was wrong, the person whom was effected by it says he doesn't think Mem was malicious in his intent and isn't going to Stars about it. You want Stars to seize his money and close his account? The money would just go to Stars and he'd be playing under another name, it's not like there's anyone for it to be redistributed to and the punishment seems harsh for someone where the effect party accepted an apology. How big of a scumbag ADZ is, is another story. Again, don't think it's anywhere close to right but think you're blowing it out of proportion given how it came to light.

I understand where you're coming from crunk but what do you think of the fact that Mez asked ADZ to sit out so they could play HU?

Also, what I don't get is that why would anyone want to swap with a third person when you guys are playing against a weak opponent to begin with. In other words, fuck variance, you already have a huge edge against the perceived weaker opponent.

As to the first point, Mez didn't think he was gaining any EV advantage by swapping.

As to the second, it's just to lower variance. These NL guys in particular tend to play way over their rolls sometimes so they swap a lot.

I understand that 2 players swapping in a 3 handed game is wrong but if they did it specifically to collude then why did he ask ADZ to sit out?

I've read that 5 times and still don't get what you're trying to say.

Please forgive me as I'm mildly retarded.

O is saying that at the time Mem did it he didn't think he was gaining an edge just that he'd be lowering his variance.

O, have your pets died? Can we discuss my adoption yet? I really need someone to help my O8 game.

what a fuckin clownshow.