IN LAKE TAHOE CASINO QUESTION - DETECTIVE DRUFF, SECURITY ASKED ME TO STAY (CLAIMS OVER PAYING?)

SO I AM IN LAKE TAHOE PLAYING AT A HARRAHS PROPERTY. I STARTED WITH 2000 BUCKS AND RUN IT UP TO 8K WITHIN A FEW HOURS PLAYING A COMBO OF ROULETTE AND BLACK JACK.

ANYWAY, WE ARE ABOUT TO LEAVE AND THE PIT BOSS SAYS HE NEEDS ME TO STICK AROUND BECAUSE THEY THINK ONE OF THE DEALERS OVERPAID ME 1500. A LITTLE DRUNK I ACTUALLY AGREE TO THIS AND HANG OUT FOR 20 MINS AS THEY REVIEW THE TAPES.

I GET SICK OF WAITING AND START TO HEAD TO THE DOOR. THE PIT BOSS TELLS ME I HAVE TO STAY. I TELL HIM I DONT HAVE TO STAY AND I WANT TO LEAVE. WE WALK OUT THE DOOR AND DRIVE AWAY.

I KNOW IN NEVEDA CASINOS HAVE A RIGHT TO GET MONEY BACK IF THEY OVER PAY YOU. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW FAR THIS REACHES THOUGH. I MEAN THIS WAS A GOOD 30 MINUTES LATER WHEN THEY CLAIM THEY OVER PAID ME.. I MEAN CAN YOU CASH OUT, GO FUCKING SHOPPING AND THEN THEY CAN GET THEIR MONEY BACK?

BRANDON MIGHT HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHAT IS LEGAL AND NOT.

DID I FUCK UP BY NOT WAITING IT OUT. i DO HAVE 8K IN CHIPS ON ME.

In short, no. You did the right thing.

If the casinos overpay you, they do have a right to ask for the money back. However, they cannot hold you indefinitely while they figure out whether or not they overpaid you. If they can't figure it out within a few minutes, you can leave. I believe they do have a right to refuse to cash in the chips in question, though, until they can determine whether they were obtained correctly.

This does not apply to cheating or other illegal means to obtain chips. For example, they would have a right to hold you if they had legitimate reason to believe that you were in collusion with a dealer or pit-boss to steal from them. However, they are supposed to immediately contact the police under such circumstances. It appears in your case it is a civil matter, and that you were not under any criminal suspicion.

If they were to come up with tapes later on that prove you were overpaid by $1500, they could go after you civilly to collect the money, but they wouldn't. They would just eat it. However, they could confiscate $1500 in chips when you bring them to cash in, provided they had sufficient evidence that they were given to you by mistake.

For this reason, I highly suggest that you either hold the chips until next time, or you get a friend to cash them in. Make sure your friend cashes in under 3k per visit to the cashier, and make sure he does NOT admit that he got them from you. He can simply say he won them over the past few months in various visits there, and is cashing them in now. Unless they can disprove it (which is impossible, if he keeps his story simple), they can't confiscate them. If he admits they're yours, they can confiscate them. Also, tell him not to give his Harrah's card when he cashes them in. If they ask him for one, he can simply say he doesn't have one.

One other thing: If they determine that you indeed got overpaid $1500 and you never give them the money back, they can bar you from the property (and all Harrah's properties). This is a risk you might be taking. I would stick with the Clinton-esque "Don't ask, don't tell" approach here. Don't play at that casino again this trip, and have your friend quietly cash out your chips a few hours apart during 3 different cashier visits. They will probably forget about it the next time you come there, regardless of what they find.

What is the significance of the 3k per visit?

Most casinos have their own limit for a cashout (they never tell you what it is) before they get up your ass, wanting to see ID and/or asking a lot of questions.

Harrah's properties tend to be 3k, but some are higher or lower. 3k was just my best guess in this situation.

The important thing when cashing in chips for someone else is to stay simple. You are not required to remember things. You can say that you played "sometime last month" or "a bunch of times during this year", but not remember exact dates. However, if you admit to obtaining the chips from someone else, they can confiscate them. If they ask why you didn't use your Harrah's card while playing (if they have one on file for you), you can just say that you don't like having your gambling tracked all the time. Again, it is not a legal requirement to play with a card.

I should mention that I was in a weird situation at Bellagio about 6 years ago that was somewhat similar -- except it didn't directly involve gambling.

I was staying there, and was ready to check out. They incorrectly had me billed for the standard rate instead of the "poker rate". It was a difference of more than double. You qualify for the poker rate if you have played a certain number of hours in the poker room, which I easily cleared. They told me that the poker room didn't inform them that I qualified. I told them to call the poker room, and it turned out that the only person who could verify it was out of the office. Apparently they locked up all of the records in some file drawer, and that one guy had the only key.

The cocksuckers at the front desk had the nerve to tell me that I had two options:

1) I could pay the higher rate and they would credit me back later if they determined I was right (LOL)
2) I could sit around for an unspecified amount of time (which they admitted could be hours) until that one dude showed back up in the office (also LOL)

I told them to suck a big penis, and that I would do neither. After a lot of arguing, I told them I would only pay the rate I was promised, and it is their fault for locking up my poker verification to where nobody could access it. I told them that I was leaving, and that they could either take my word for it and give me the proper rate, or I would pay nothing. They backed down and gave me the proper rate.

However, if it was up to them, I would have stayed there indefinitely until they could verify if I played enough poker.

Sometimes you just have to know your rights and say, "Fuck you, I'm leaving" if they try to hold you somewhere improperly.

All this is right Druff said except Harrah's has a knack for getting your DL and making a stink on all cashouts over $2500 not $3000. I only have experience with Harrahs' in the south/mw and Louisiana though.

Another thing Harrah's does is when you bring a purple in ($500), even if its one chip, they want to know where you have been playing and then call in the pit to find out if you really just came off that table with purple. So be careful if ome of that $8k is purple (and it probably is).

Exeptions to this if you are a regular player.

Ive had scenarios similar to this, I walked, but I never let them color up from black to purple anymore. I usually dont leave with 8k though, actually I dont udsually leave with any money at all when I go to the casino.

I can only assume by the mention of a Harrahs property in Tahoe, you meant Harveys?? If so, heres a good trick to use there, that I've used quite often. Go and place a $10 sports bet and use one of the $500 or even higher chips as payment. I've NEVER, and I mean NEVER had a problem doing that. They don't call anyone. They don't verify shit. Since the bet is only $10, no manager needs to verify the bet. The guy just takes it and says, "you want chips or cash sir?" One time, I even left with the bet slip and had to cash it through the mail!

DRUFF, EVERYONE THANKS FOR THE SOLID ADVICE.

I HAVE SOME DEGEN SPORTS BETS I AM GOING TO DO TODAY AND TOMORROW SO THE ABOVE WILL WORK PERFECTLY.

I WILL HAVE MY FRIEND PLACE ALL THE SPORTS BETS AND COLLECT

I PROBABLY SHOULDNT RISK IT PLAYING AT THE TABLES ANYMORE JUST IN CASE BUT THAT IS PROBABLY FOR THE BEST ANYWAY.

Any snow on the mountains in S. Lake?

I HAVENT SEEN ANY IN THE AREA I AM IN. COLD AS FUCK AT NIGHT THOUGH

I was in Lake tahoe this weekend. Where are you staying?

I think the logical question to ask which has not been asked yet would be:

Did they overpay you by 1500?... I'm guessing yes since you wouldn't wait to verify and make sure there were no repercussions. If so can we get the story of that please.

I HONESTLY HAVE NO IDEA

WHAT MAKES ME THINK THEY DID,WAS I INTENTIONALLY CALLED IN THE NEXT DAY TO SEE WHAT MY COMP POINTS WERE AT TO SEE IF ANYTHING WOULD COME UP. THEY TOLD ME I HAD A ZERO BALANCE.

I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THEY DID IN FACT OVERPAY ME, PIT BOSS WENT ON TILT AFTER I LEFT, AND THEN ERASED ALL MY GAME PLAY

THEY ALSO TOOK A TON OF TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF I GOT OVERPAID WHICH MAKES ME THINK THEY HAD GOOD EVIDENCE I WAS OVERPAID AND WERE GOING THROUGH SOME KIND OF PROCEDURE.

I AM PRETTY GOOD WITH MONEY EVEN WHEN I AM DRINKING AND REALLY BELIEVE THEY NEVER OVERPAID ME. BUT ALL THE THINGS THEY DID SEEM TO COUNTER THAT

AT ANY RATE, I WENT BACK TO THAT CASINO THE NEXT DAY AND IT NEVER CAME UP SO DUNNO..

A lot of places do this now. Every time I tried to cash out at Bellagio it was , what table number were you playing on ? I never knew and they always went through a whole process on every cashout. Really annoying. I usually remember dealer names, but who the fuck pays attention to table numbers ? It's a scam that requires you to have to clear any significant cashout with pit boss before proceeding to cage so they can try and make up some excuse to keep you there. Might have some IRS/Homeland Security type implications as a reason behind it also but I look at it as simply another casino scam.

the real cmoney would never stay 30 min

It's actually a federal anti-counterfeiting/anti-money laundering rule called Title 31. They want to make sure you're not using the casino to trade in fake/dirty money and get back clean money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_31_casinos

True, but Title 31 is abused badly by casinos in order to roll people, confiscate chips unfairly, and track the play of those who don't wish to be tracked.

I'll post more about this later.

The federal government doesn't care if you wished to be tracked or not. The feds are pretty hardcore about title 31 and they have handed out 7 figure fines to major casinos for violations. Trust me, the casinos would really rather not deal with title 31, and would rather not hassle you about it.

I THINK DIFFERENT CASINOS HAVE DIFFERENT POLICIES

I HAVE CASHED OUT 50K+ SEVERAL TIMES IN VEGAS WITHOUT HAVING TO FILL OUT ANY FORMS

HOWEVER, AT THE LOCAL INDIAN CASINO THEY REQUIRE YOU FILL OUT FORMS (FOR ANTI LAUNDERING) IF YOU CASH OUT IN EXCESS OF 10K AT A TIME. TO GET AROUND THIS, I SIMPLY CASH OUT OUT 5-9K AT A TIME OVER THE COURSE OF A DAY OR TWO.

SO EITHER VEGAS SUBMITS THEM WITHOUT MY KNOWING, OR SOMEHOW THEY DONT HAVE TO.