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Posted by: DanDruff May 5 2009, 09:05 AM

I have been playing a lot more live NL cash lately, in part due to the limit games drying up big time (especially in Vegas).

Last night, I showed up to Bellagio to play a 4-handed 60-120 limit game, only to find that the 4 people were all winning regulars. I wasn't going to waste my time with that crap. Instead, I decided to join a heads-up 10-20 NL game (making myself the 3rd player) in what looked like a matchup between a young pro and a middle-aged amateur.

Indeed, the amateur played an odd loose-passive style that, while definitely very flawed, often made him difficult to read and value-bet against.

Here's an example hand from when it was 3 handed:

Pro is on BB.
I am on SB.
Amateur is on button.

Button limps. I complete from the SB with Kd4d. BB checks.

Flop:

Ah2h3d

Pot = $60

I fire out $40 in a semi-bluff attempt to steal. I have a gutshot and backdoor flush draw. I am relatively certain that, if the BB folds, I won't get raised, as the button hates raising unless he has a huge hand.

Indeed, the BB folds, and the button calls.

Turn:

9d

Pot size = $140

Now I picked up additional outs in the flush.

I bet $100. Again, I don't think he's raising me here unless he's got something huge. Also, I might be ahead of him if he's drawing at hearts with no pair, and he will never bluff or thin-value bet the river if I check to him after missing.

He calls. I hope to see a 5 or a diamond.

River:

9c

Pot size = $340

I'm giving up. I check, he checks.

Before I show my hand, he says, "3 pair", referring to the fact that he had 2 pair before the river!

He flips over A2, for flopped 2 pair!

So this hand demonstrates that the guy really, really, really doesn't like to raise unless he has a monster.

Anyway, the pro orders food and loses interest in the game. He sits out.

It's heads up between me and the amateur.

I start to think about the optimal strategy against a guy like him. Here are some facts about the way he plays heads up:

- He loves to limp on the button, and will do so with horrible hands (like 73o) all the way up to well-above-average hands (like QTs). He will also limp with an ace, both suited and unsuited.

- He is quite willing to check it down if you check to him, and he doesn't have anything

- He will often call you if you raise pre-flop, provided he's not holding compelte trash

- Raises from him pre-flop mean a strong hand (even on the button), and raises post-flop are super-serious business

- He will call flop bets with a naked ace-high/no-draw in most cases

- He will never bluff-raise, semi-bluff, or raise light, but it can be hard to move him off of middle pair or better

- He will never fold on the button pre-flop before I act. He will only fold to a raise. If he has something like 72o, he will limp and then fold if raised.

Here is the strategy I used:

- If he limps ($20) on the button, raise above-average hands from the BB to $60 or $80. If I have an average or worse hand, I will just check. Most of my raises to $80 will be the hands that have better showdown value, such as pocket pairs and ace-high.

- If I checked from the BB, I will be willing to check it down and check/fold if I miss. That is, I won't bother outright bluffing in those spots.

- I will raise about the top 70% of hands from the button, limp with the next 20%, and fold the bottom 10%. When I raise, I will usually make it $80.

- If I get re-raised pre-flop, I will fold anything but really strong hands. I might call a raise with a pocket pair in attempt to flop a set, depending upon his raise size and how much money he still has in front of him. (He was often short stacked, thus killing the value of small pairs for me.)

- If I limped from the button and he checks to me, I will fire $20 into the $40 pot to steal it about 50% of the time that I miss. The other 50% of the time I will check it down, to give the impression that I only bet when I have something.

- I will always continuation bet if I raise pre-flop, whether from the button or the BB.

- If he calls my flop bet, and I have no hand, I will check it down on the turn and river and fold to any bet.

- If he calls my flop bet and I have a draw, I will check/call on the turn unless I hit.

- If he calls my flop bet and I have middle or bottom pair, I will check. If he bets strong (or bets both the turn and river), I will toss it.

- If I have top pair or better, I will bet the whole way, but I will fold to a raise if my hand isn't that strong. I will never try to trap him with a strong hand, since he is so passive.


Comments?

Posted by: hardeight May 6 2009, 04:28 AM

druff i use a stragery of raiseing preflop any time i play apot with guys like this. Usually i double the blind every time, then i will bet between a 1/4 or 1/2 the pot on the flop depending on what i have and i will mix that up.
if i have say 78 suited and i rased preflop and it comes AK10 i bet 1/4 of the pot if he calls then i check down. if i have any pair or draw i will bet the turn betting between 1/4 and 1/2 pot every time. If the guy reraises i probaly auto muck unless i am super strong. If i hit my draw or improve my any pair etc i will make pretty good bet on the river at the size of the pot. what i have that happens is that these calling stations keep calling u down with the micro bets and i get paid off on a regular I also never run big bluffs at these types of players i feel i can keep the pots small and just wait them out.

also even the biggest donk will figure out if he calls your flop bet you will most likely check it out. so he will beginto call you every time when he has remotly anything.

Posted by: Merlin9999 May 7 2009, 11:17 AM

This seems to be very solid HU strategy. I like the limping adjustment, since you're getting your 3-1 odds every time.

Only thing I'd recommend is maybe checking more big blinds. Just having an above average hand doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be easy to play post-flop, so you might want to tighten up a little bit OOP.

Posted by: hardeight May 10 2009, 04:41 PM

it really has worked well for me , many times when i fire a big bet on the river when holding the nuts or something very strong i get paid off becsause after micro betting many hands they think i am trying to steal.

yes each hand is very different if i look down at 62 i usaully will check that big blind. i am trying to find a good stragery to play aggresive players. i have been using a stragery of just flat calling their big pre flop raises and hoping ot hit a flop where they will fire

i usually love to find short handed live cash games but as of late most of the games are breaking when they get 5 handed. it sucks. i have found private games or home games where late at night the winners leave and you are playing a short handed game with guys who are stuck to tbe the best for me

Posted by: GrenadaRoger May 15 2009, 03:16 PM

QUOTE(DanDruff @ May 5 2009, 05:05 PM)

Posted by: lewfeather May 17 2009, 02:11 AM

Someone change my status to "only reads thread titles" because certainly that's all I ever do, whether it be on shooting of or ask druff forums.

IMO playing HU vs PASSIVE hu players;

Basics:

Outplay preflop (raising more than regular w/button. If he limps to you a lot at first, I say check and see a lot of Q-baby flops. If you hit and bet and he is always folding then start raising a lot more when he limps his button.)

C-bet a lot of flops, if he is calling the majority than start checking missed flops, if he is calling a lot then start pot betting a lot of paired flops.

Turn play is key, do not get a lot invested without information. A passive player is going to call you down with a lot of strong hands, if he can fold c-bet the fuck out of him if he can't bet and see where you are in the hand.

River play is basically for value with any sort of middle pair vs passive player, you can check down a lot of scary river cards vs this type of player. Too many times he's calling with K0o turns a 4 flush and rivers a 9 to beat your A8o.

Never get a ton of chips into the pot vs. this type of player, unless you have the nuts, clearly. This type o player is goin to peel a ton of turns on you, when you are constantly betting vs this type of player he's goin to start peeling a lot more turns and rivers with limitless draw. Keep an eye on this, the key is to small pot poker a passive player and outplay him pre and flop, after that it should be a wrap. If he is shoving on you, insta-fold.

Enjoy your 5% roi% vs this type of player, too easy.

Posted by: elocutionist Jun 10 2009, 05:55 PM

QUOTE(DanDruff @ May 5 2009, 06:05 PM)