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Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 12:53 AM

Editor's Note: With this thread over 30 pages long, you likely are intimidated by the size of this whole thing, and probably want to just get down to the nitty-gritty. If you want a pretty good summary of what former mod FckVwls did to NWPer "icfishies", go to this link:

http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/shooting-off-f1-vwls-lets-be-honest-here-t63386-st86.html

That takes you to the middle of page 5 of this thread. Read that long post and you'll mostly be up to speed. The rest is a lot of arguing back and forth between Vwls' yes-men and the rational people who see things how they really are. Or, if you want to read it all from the very beginning, follow along below....











Vwls, I have to admit that it makes me a bit sick to my stomach to read about your righteous indignation in regards to the "false accusation" that you ripped off someone from NWP.

I don't know about all of Micon's evidence, but I was sent some very strong information that, in all honesty, makes you look really bad. I would be shocked if the information I was given was false, given all that I have seen.

I wish I could state more, but unfortuantely it's not my call. The person who revealed it to me does not want this made public. I will not betray them.

However, at the same time, I feel you're using this lack-of-outing as a way to prove to everyone that we're making this whole thing up. We're not.

So, Vwls, I have some very direct questions for you. Please think carefully before you answer them.

1) Do you currently owe any known NWP member, whether currently active or not, more than $100?

1a) If so, how much, and why do you owe them this money?

1b) When were you expected to pay this person back? How much have you paid them so far? When was the last time you paid them?

1c) Did you come to owe this person money through legitimate means, or did you roll them in some way?


2) If you DON'T owe any known NWP member more than $100, I would like you to swear on your daughter's life that you owe nobody you ever met from NWP more than $100. I am interested to see how far you are willing to take this cover-up.


If you at least own up to the fact that I'm not pulling this out of my ass (and contact me to make arrangements to start paying this person back), I won't make the story public. I am just tired of being called a liar, and I am tired of you portraying yourself as far more honest than you actually are.

Again, think carefully before you answer this one. And please also think before making up a BS cover-up story, because I know way more than you can ever imagine I know.

Sorry it had to come to this. Someone repost this on boris.

Posted by: Proofz Jan 30 2009, 01:01 AM

let her have it druff

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:12 AM

Michael, in ever-protective friend-mode, wrote the following to Angel (Vwls) on Boris:

I can answer that question, Michael.

She can benefit from responding by clearing the air once and for all. If she really has nothing to hide, she should have no problem swearing on her daughter's life that she doesn't owe more than $100 to someone from NWP, and that will be that.

For example, if someone came out and accused me of rolling them, I would be proud to answer to the accusations and declare openly that I have cheated nobody and am not covering up any sort of shady dealings.

I want to see if Vwls will have the nerve to deny this until I actually bring out the details. I want to see how far she'll take the denial.

That seems to be her M/O. She will deny everything and act sweet and innocent until she's 100% sure that you really have the goods on her.

Rather than drop the goods right now (and betray this person at the same time), I want to see how far she'll take her insistence that she did nothing wrong to anyone from NWP.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:14 AM

Also, you guys know me pretty well by now.

Would I be accusing her of such a thing without substantial information to back up my claims?

There's no way I would be coming on so strong with just some bullshit hearsay. Trust me on that one especially.

Posted by: michael Jan 30 2009, 01:16 AM

What's it matter, she's not here anymore and if your story holds any truth at all, your Newhouse-like bud can air it out.

Don't see the point in antogonizing each other over and over, squash the beef and let the diff forums continue.

Posted by: michael Jan 30 2009, 01:19 AM

Also, how did you know I was mikhail?

Posted by: donk_tilt Jan 30 2009, 01:22 AM

Vwls is immortal though, and even if she did roll somebody nobody will care or dislike her all of a sudden.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:22 AM

I'll tell you what the problem is.

I am sitting here reading boris, and to be honest, the only thing getting me mad over there is her arrogant demands for apologies regarding these "false accusations". She actually has the nerve to accuse Micon of making the whole thing up in order to vilify her.

Unbelievable.

I don't give a shit about all of the trash talk over there about Micon shitting the bed, me being an attention-hungry Jew, or any of the other crap. I've seen that sort of thing for 5 years on this site and reading it on boris doesn't faze me.

But damnit, Vwls' indignant attitude about these accusations really tilts me, because I know the truth. If she didn't make such an issue out of this, I would have kept my mouth shut, but I just can't keep quiet any longer.

Vwls, please admit to the people that, yes, you did roll someone. Then please contact me to arrange payment details for this person, which I will be glad to help facilitate if you want. This is a joke. You don't have to tell people the story, or even who was involved, but PLEASE stop acting like you never cheated anyone from NWP.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 30 2009, 01:27 AM

seriously, todd?
i mean, does pouring salt on a wound help it heal?
or is this part of the 'process' of making NWP better again?

of ALL the people here, i really and truly never thought YOU would sink so low.
even if vwls does owe all over place, youve already gone WAY above and beyond to air your own gripe with her, so what the fuck does what she may or may not owe to anyone else have to do with you or the betterment of NWP?

if these are your true colors, then you are one repugnant, megalomaniacal lizard of a person.

nothing says 'integrity' like a fucking nerd e-bullying some lady, after the fact no less, over a business arrangement gone sour.
and all this AFTER you had the nerve, the brass fucking balls to call vwls 'business ethics' into play.
what a fucking joke.

real fucking classy druff.

im sure youll find your own egoic way to rationalize what youre doing, you always do.
but that wont change the fact that your actions here are purely malicious and serve no purpose whatsoever.
no wonder you guys cant pull this place together. you cant even leave a dead issue alone without poking it with sticks like some retarded kids standing around an anthill.

way to go champ

Posted by: micon Jan 30 2009, 01:28 AM

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:31 AM

Right.

I should just sit silent while being accused of making up false stories about this lovely, honest woman, right?

Look, if this was a matter of "business ethics", I would not be taking this line.

I'm not talking about a business deal gone bad. I'm talking about a straight-up rolling.

Now my own integrity is being called into question, and I'm not going to have it.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 30 2009, 01:36 AM

how does accusing someone else of something, that may or may not be true, clear your name of something, that may or may not be true?

and fwiw, i have no personal bias toward either of you.
i think this whole thing is playing out pretty juvenile on both sides
imo

does someone elses hundo affetc your life one way or the other, or is that just bait to justify fucking with someone else because youre pissed at them?

for fucks sake man, be the bigger person.
if youre gonna help lead the site, then fucking lead.

Posted by: BigDMcGee Jan 30 2009, 01:39 AM

Boris78

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:40 AM

I never said it was $100. I asked if there was anyone she owed AT LEAST $100 to, and to describe the circumstances under which it occurred.

And if it was something that "may or may not be true", I wouldn't be bringing it out here.

The last thing I'd be doing at this point would be levying serious, false accusations against someone.

Posted by: michael Jan 30 2009, 01:40 AM

Then explain the big nig hof thingie

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 01:43 AM

Do they sell you in brickform, I need something cheap I can throw in the oven to keep me warm this winter.

Are you aware how fucking ugly you are, are you aware that your nose screams jew from a mile away.
People that are born in this country with your characteristics are immd beheaded and thrown in the toilet.

Your stupidass stoner laugh makes me wanna puke, the funny thin is your whore skank southern bell looks like a female version of yourself

Wonder what your parents look like to produce something as fugly as you

Posted by: 408mike Jan 30 2009, 01:44 AM

Nobody cares druff. You single handedly sank this site just get over it and move on. Attempting to drag old mods down with you will not make this ship sink any slower.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:44 AM

I am wondering if Michael, who is apparently close friends with Angel, knows the story and is afraid it will come out.

I am starting to think that he might.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 30 2009, 01:47 AM

http://imageshack.us

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:50 AM

This isn't about stopping a ship from sinking, or getting more attention paid to NWP.

This is my answer to Vwls' demand for an apology regarding these accusations.

Mike, Sofaking, anyone else.... a question for you:

We made brief mention of this, she acted outraged, and subsequently accused us on boris of lying, and demanded an apology.

Given that I know that the accusations were true, what should I do at this point? Just ignore it and make it look like I was a big liar?

Explain the proper course of action here.

Also explain why people like fminc, Weissman, CMONEY, Justin Smith, and countless others are vilified for rolling people, yet somehow it's a non-issue if it involves Vwls.

Posted by: micon Jan 30 2009, 01:54 AM

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:55 AM

From cth on boris:

Again, this isn't about hurting boris' activity, or making people return to NWP.

This is simply answering Vwls' demand for an apology and her accusations that we made up lies.

In addition, the person who got rolled needs to be paid back.

cth, as you have seen over the years, I have always made efforts to get people paid back when rollings occur, even if I get nothing out of it personally.

Posted by: michael Jan 30 2009, 01:55 AM

I like vwls, I wouldn't say we are close friends, no irl stuff or anything, we just both shared a passion about neverwinpoker.

I just think your still kinda mad at vwls and are either trying to get more hits as Delaware would say, or venting your anger at her. No one questioned your integrity or called you a liar at boris, so that excuse doesn't really work, and no one knows what your talking about in regards to a rolling, so no one is commenting either way really, if something went down it's between the accuser (if they exist) and vwls.

Also Micon said on radio a couple of weeks ago that wrenchjockey was fired in part due to allegations that Micon later found out to be false, so who knows if this is some misunderstanding or a disgruntled user or something.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 02:00 AM

Then tell the whole story, or are we just goint to take your word for it?

Also Micon I got 5 bucks on you in the deadpool.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 30 2009, 02:00 AM

my answer(s)....

-if i have a problem with someone, i take it up with THAT person.
-if i KNOW my name is good, i could give a fuck less about what ANYONE says.
-if i elect to put myself in a position to/make myself a bastion of some sort of decency/fairness (albeit in a den of degenaracy), im going to realize that i cant enforce standards that i dont hold myself to.
-if ive got the goods on someone and want to out them for something, then im going to do just that. not conjure up a bunch of drama just to ruffle some feathers without showing anything concrete.

-but above all, i would like to think taht id be able to tell the difference between what is important and what is annoying

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 02:01 AM

Micon was often in a pot-induced haze and made snap decisions that weren't always well thought-out.

I am the opposite of that.

The accuser exists, and the evidence is extremely strong. Trust me on that.

Vwls demanded an apology for these accusations on boris, and at one point theorized that this was a lie for attention-getting purposes.

I am responding.

If you don't care, that's your perrogative.

Personally, I find it interesting when long-trusted users end up being involved in rollings.

Posted by: BigDMcGee Jan 30 2009, 02:02 AM

Russians do it better

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 02:04 AM

I'm starting slowly.

Part of the interesting aspect to this exercise will be seeing how far she takes the denial before becoming convinced that I'm not bluffing.

Her reaction to this will speak volumes about her character.

Posted by: Nemexix Jan 30 2009, 02:05 AM

She's probably the closest some of the blackcockclub kids have been to a real female. I doubt they would give that up so easily.

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:06 AM

druff stop lying. you're such a goddamn liar.

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:06 AM

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:07 AM

hey charder what's up man good to see you

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 02:10 AM

Beenfagging, what makes you convinced I'm lying?

Do I have a track record of dishonesty here?

When have I ever come out with an accusation against someone here of this degree of seriousness and had it turn out not to be true?

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:11 AM

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 02:14 AM

Could we get the exact number of money owed, I will ship some of the owed money to your starsaccount if Angel is broke and doesnt have funds herself.

Posted by: RSX Jan 30 2009, 02:15 AM

I can't see where any of this holds any truth. Why would you lie about this Druff? I don't understand.

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:16 AM

he likes to lie i just don't get it

Posted by: donk_tilt Jan 30 2009, 02:16 AM

Just on the accuser, nothing to lose at this point - just spill the story

Posted by: hutmaster Jan 30 2009, 02:18 AM

I have had my share of disagreements with Druff but I don't think anyone has ever known him to lie or make shit up............although Jewdonk may disagree. LOL Angel never struck me as the type to intentionally roll someone though, so if your accusations have some basis, I do wonder if you have the full and complete story.

Posted by: macon_marc Jan 30 2009, 02:20 AM

lol'd at the swear on your kids life

A little brash imo.

Posted by: RSX Jan 30 2009, 02:24 AM

Also lol'd at that. Took it a little to far there.

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 02:42 AM

Posted by: GrenadaRoger Jan 30 2009, 02:56 AM

this is hilarious...imagine, at a site set up for "Poker Networking" (aka a place for scammers to connect for online collusion and multiaccounting) one of the principals playing an intergrity card...

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 02:58 AM

this is a really solid example of how leadership here fails.

if youre going to step up to the plate and claim you have some monster bomb to drop regarding angels integrity, simply put; a real man makes his case and lets the audience judge, or he steps to angel in private and either reaches a mutual conclusion or gives up and blows her out of the water when no mutual conclusion can be reached.

this whole "want to see how far she goes to deny it" thing, thats vanity and a lust for attention and you finally feeling like youre in a situation where youre immune from critique, so youre milking it.

this is not how people act who expect to be taken seriously as adults, and youre asking to be taken seriously.

and the worst part of all this is... no matter how badly vwls rolled someone, you come off worse than her *again* for making this thread.

delete it or make your case, those are the moves that have integrity. everything else is adolescent territorial exhibitionism.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 03:02 AM

This wouldn't have been done if we weren't accused of being liars and if an apology hadn't been demanded.

So instead of dropping this full dramabomb (which, again, would betray someone's trust, as well), I am giving her the chance to either come forward and tell the truth, or to continue on with this charade that she is innocent.

There's nothing juvenille about giving someone one more chance to tell the truth.

Posted by: Missing Maryjane Jan 30 2009, 03:04 AM

druff,

my personal experience on airing dirty laundry is that if you're going to do it, you need to be prepared to lay it all out on the table, bc if you only give bits and pieces, even if its bc you only want to release "necessary" information, you are going to get shit on..

sometimes defending your integrity just makes you look bad, no matter what... get permission to release the truth in its entirety or drop it. this trial is going to go nowhere and its going to cause you a lot of unwanted grief imo...

-C.C.

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 03:06 AM

Posted by: Missing Maryjane Jan 30 2009, 03:10 AM

also todd, whats your plan here? say she comes here and posts that she swears on her childs life that she doesnt owe anyone more than $100... regardless of whether shes telling the truth or lying, then what??

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 03:12 AM

i think the move here would have been to contact vwls through back channels (email, phone) and say "look, im hearing this thing, and if its true then you owe me a pretty huge fucking apology".

i actually do think you have a case here, i dont think this is smoke with no fire, and ive never believed angel was some perfect buddha of black cock who was somehow immune to corruption, so finding out she rolled someone isnt exactly blowing my mind.

again my single complaint is that by not pursuing this in a manner that embraces restraint, diligence, and diplomacy, youre basically making sure that any revelations that come of this thread are tainted by what will be perceived as a vindictive agenda on your part.

and lastly, the whole concept of the anonymous third party is very unfortunate; by making this thread you guarantee that sooner or later, that person will almost certainly be known. so really if youre that concerned with their anonymity, thats probably the biggest argument of all for absolutely not posting this thread and handling this entire situation with the utmost discretion.

you could have lambasted her after you had the facts and no one could have said dick about it.

this... this is all very ill-conceived.

Posted by: The Icon Jan 30 2009, 03:17 AM

only read OP.
no one cares until the whole story is told.

Druff even if you did care about the person not wanting it made public you're already notorious for the "i know something, but can't tell you" stories. So much so that it's old now and very annoying.

I'm sure if this ever actaully gets interesting someone will post it at boris

icon out.

Posted by: Missing Maryjane Jan 30 2009, 03:18 AM

[sigh] i never thought a year ago i could eventually learn something from nwp...

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 04:05 AM

So if there is something and this is denied when are you going to bring out the details?

Posted by: rustdog Jan 30 2009, 04:09 AM

As a long time lurker and an occasional poster, I must say this. Micon's leaky asshole has fucked up this site. His fat friend Sole messing with accounts. His dumb hick friend macon messing with accounts. Him and his stupid friends fucked the site up. Micon is getting what he deserves. He is dragging you down with him Druff. Look at the way you are behaving. It is really pathetic. You are now a pathetic clown like micron the man with the leaky assole. Off to boris78.com. Somebody wipe this shit up. It stinks.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 05:02 AM

Stop being such a little fucking pussy and just tell the fucking story.

Jesus christ. Nobody wants to keep coming back here anymore.

Just tell us who she rolled so we can go back to boris and make a fucking celebratory thread about it

fuck

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 05:06 AM

He;s not telling anyone what really happened because he wants people to slowly come back here.

Plain and simple
n other reason to drag this out like a junior high kid on his saturday stroll to the synoguage

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 05:12 AM

Druff doesn't really know what he's doing when it comes to handling social type situations. forgive him for his elementary train of thought on these dramabombers

Posted by: mwh72 Jan 30 2009, 05:19 AM

Cmoney is the one that is saying she got scammed and she already admitted to taking money from him that was owed to her. None of the other 5 or 6 people that she has scammed ever made a single post about her rolling them. So why are we hearing about all this crap now Druff? Now that she has been fired and not here to defend herself anymore?

Tell the full story and leave the name of this person out or STFU already. Are you learning how to bed shit from Micon now? He is the master.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 05:35 AM

If you want an answer to this thread, be sure to check out http://www.boris78.com where all these types of things will be discussed and answered after weeks of hinting at them and talking about them will take place. Than, once you are familiar with http://www.boris78.com we will than give you an answer in those next weeks to come.

At http://www.boris78.com we don't just tell you the truth, we also keep you guessing for weeks until we give the full story!

Posted by: BigDMcGee Jan 30 2009, 05:38 AM

Boris78

Posted by: ThreeUp3Down Jan 30 2009, 06:24 AM

Druff will kill her kid, obviously. He's a man of extreme principle.

Posted by: Nada Dave Jan 30 2009, 06:34 AM

You DO have a track record of being consistently wrong.

Posted by: Arsenalfc76 Jan 30 2009, 06:34 AM

Why do you an Micon begin air your dirty laundry out in the open on this site and when your user ask for an explaination all we get is little bits and pieces. Total high school bullshit.

If you have a big story , drop it . Newspapers dont sell by telling their customers they MAY have a
big story.

Or just contact Vwls direct and sort it out either way Im sure most posters think the way you do these gossipy style accusations make you look like a teenage girl.

Cmon DD show us what you got or handle it in private like an adult.

Posted by: Nada Dave Jan 30 2009, 06:40 AM

Oh and lol at you getting your panties in a wad for being accused of lying. You claimed I was a liar and went to ridiculous lengths to prove it. When you were shown to be wrong you refused to apologize. So fuck off you pasty white whining faggot hypocrite.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 06:45 AM

Druff,

You cant accuse someone of wrongdoing publicly and not provide any evidence to back up the claims, that means anyone can accuse anyone of anything and say well i cant go into details becuase the accuser wants to stay annonymous.

Posted by: liquidsyphon Jan 30 2009, 06:51 AM

lol says the guy "protecting" these 6 or 7 people people who snitched on her, post the proof jackass

glad to see your trolling boris to

Posted by: liquidsyphon Jan 30 2009, 06:51 AM

this is the classic "druff knows something but wont tell anyone" move

Posted by: onlinepokerbrokeme Jan 30 2009, 07:10 AM

I have been around the site awhile: I listen to the radio show and read mostly the drama posts etc. I enjoy Nwp and found it when I got booted from p-5,s and found double duece's to be way to nitty and boring.


Ive made a few friends here at NWP . I wear my gear out to my local tourneys and in general support the site because in a Whole it pure entertainment for me and others . Micon is a guy who I like not because of any one reason but he is funny to listen to on the radio he lives his life day to day and if he was to leave this world tommorow he could say I had fun.

Druff I respect as a player and a person. The man pretty much tells it like it is and seems almost as a father figure and mentor to Micon. They mix extremely well together on the radio show and on the site as well.


I can say that I posted one time about making a money swap with someone and I know because im new and dont have much posting history here that vowels answered me and said that she wouldnt do a paypal for stars transfer because of the personal information behind it. Which I find reasonable enough. I like to do paypal for stars because it saves me money when I deposit.

In any event , I think the majority of the main posters on the site who are really making this out to be more than it is can all stay at the other site . In my opinion as is ownerships majority opinion im sure others will come along and fill there shoes. I don't care who posted what because mostly everything posted in shooting off is informative or entertaining .


I didn't care about the forum split either . Taking all the racist , and dick picks to another area was fine it was still uncensored .


My Opinion in a whole which doesn't amount to squat is if I had a say I would tell the whiners and complainers goodbye and good luck in a few months it will be business as usual around NWP and we can get back to the main focus which is having fun and trying to bring traffic away from the Double Deuce and the queers at P-5,s


Ill Be here reading and lurking as usual


Thanks

Posted by: Archkid Jan 30 2009, 07:22 AM

PMSL, yeah right that explains the fall of communism, the splintering of the Soviet Union, not to mention some famous wall that one David Hasselhoff apparently helped bring down. NASA must be PISSED they let you go!

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 30 2009, 07:27 AM

Actually, people tend to not swear on their kids life and lie unless they don't like their kids.

People are quick to swear on their own life and not give 2 shits if they are bullshitting - but with the kids, its different.

Posted by: Micons Shitstain Jan 30 2009, 07:30 AM

I would bet that the accuser behind all of this is that pussy Brandon. He seems like the mealy weasel who would hide behind micons skirt, throw out accusations and get her job in the process.
Don't worry, this time the female in question won't kill herself over it all.

Posted by: DirtyB Jan 30 2009, 07:32 AM

Thomas Jefferson agrees with you.

Sixth Amendment –
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Posted by: Archkid Jan 30 2009, 07:40 AM

Hey Weiss i have 2 bottles of oxycontin, a glass of water, and a shotgun with a pacifier on it that I'm sending to you, please use them ASAP! FFS man just go if your going to go and STFU about this ghey ass gnat's fart of a forum.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 07:58 AM

For live footage of this please visit boris78.com

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 08:03 AM

pretty sad that you actually tried to answer this seriously.

you should probably die today with the rest of your family

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 08:03 AM

your serious replies are pretty sad...

I honestly feel bad for you now.

Ship the oxy, I can sell them quickly. I have plenty of water, and pass on the shotgun

Posted by: BigDMcGee Jan 30 2009, 08:17 AM

Vwls offical response

Posted by: :o Jan 30 2009, 08:17 AM

We need proof/tits or

Surprised this person hasnt come forward, he/shes making druff look pretty isolated right now. If its a genuine roll then no-one would think bad of this person spilling the beans.

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by FckVwls
No idea what anyone is talking about - if I owe anyone money, it's in my personal life, nothing to do with NWP. I can personally guarantee you that I never did anybody dirty as a mod for that site - all money dealings were straight up and proper. No one is owed anything - no one was in any way deceived at any time. To even suggest it is ridiculous and outrageous and as I said before, I demand an apology, both personal and public.



There you go druff. Ball is in your court. If ya got somethin let's hear it. If not this is the ultimate :fail

Posted by: Z0idberg Jan 30 2009, 09:31 AM

God this site fucking sucks.

Posted by: Jewdonk Jan 30 2009, 11:59 AM

Posted by: Jewdonk Jan 30 2009, 12:09 PM

some of the one liners coming from Druff lately are simply comedy gold lol

Todd, glad you don't take this site too seriously...god forbid

Its obvious there is going to be no resolution on this matter for either camp and you are just going to go in circles with each side repeating the same story and/or accusations

Maybe it's time to hang it up and move on to the next victim. This is played out already IMO

Posted by: Nada Dave Jan 30 2009, 12:13 PM

Hey Todd, does Finklestein practice libel defense?

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 12:17 PM

If this ever went to court(it wont) HofNig would have to be in the court records.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 12:44 PM

This goes out to Sonatine(i love u mang)

Posted by: Peanut_Butter_Crunch Jan 30 2009, 01:21 PM

Posted by: EripSnoc Jan 30 2009, 01:26 PM

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:29 PM

LOL @ libel.

Anyway, for those that aren't following on Boris, here's what went down while I was sleeping:

1) Vwls woke up, found these threads, and responded with her usual BS indignation, again swearing that she rolled no one from NWP:

2) She thought about it a bit further and realized that I may actually know something. She then posted the following weird message:



So she didn't roll the guy, but yet his name comes to mind when I mention a rolling. Interesting. Why did she think of him in the first place if she did nothing wrong?


3) GAMBLE-BOT strangely comes up with a lot of information about this matter. He posts the following:



Note that the above contains some right-on-target information about the matter, along with some horribly inaccurate info. However, it is the first detailed explanation given as to what was going on. I will separate the truth from the trash later in this post.


4) Someone else identifies the victim in question as icfishies, formerly active NWPer and sportsbetting aficianado. As seen in various pics posted around NWP, icfishies is also my personal friend.


5) Vwls, realizing that the jig is up, invents a horribly dishonest and warped story as to what occurred, in order to do some damage control:





So now you're up to speed.

Vwls "couldn't figure out" what I was referring to. Then she suddenly figured it out, but strangely couldn't understand why I would be claiming that it was a rolling. (If it wasn't a rolling, how would it have come to mind the in the first place?) Then GAMBLE-BOT drops the dramabomb, and Vwls comes up with a convoluted and downright untrue way to explain everything.

Standard.

So now it's time to give you guys the REAL story, and separate the truth from the trash...


FACT: "Sharp" sportsbettors (bettors with a positive expectation) are often banned from sportsbooks when it is discovered that they are too good. This is very similar to card counters being banned from blackjack games. This has happened to all good sportsbettors, including reggiman and icfishies. What occurs over time is that these guys are eventually shut out from all (or most) reputable sportsbooks online, and need to resort to having other people create accounts for them in order to continue playing. This is quite standard.

FACT: icfishies and Vwls got to know each other through NWP, and struck up a friendship. The friendship was NOT of a romantic nature, nor did it have any sexual or romantic undertones. I know this because I talked to icfishies about it at the time. When he mentioned that he and Angel (Vwls) were talking fairly often, I asked if there was anything beyond just friendship. He told me that it was completely platonic, and that they just enjoyed talking to one another. I believed him then, and still do now, as he would have had no reason to lie to me about it.

FACT: Vwls was having some sort of financial issues in her personal life, and was in dire need of extra money. icfishies, being a nice guy, thought of a way he could help her while possibly making a bit of money for himself at the same time. He asked her if she wanted to sign up a sportsbook account in her name and be the one to actually place the bets (i.e. have a clean IP address). He offered to front all of the starting money to her, thus making it a zero-risk proposition for her! If they won, she would get half of the winnings, and he would get half. If they lost, he would lose, and she would break even. There was no way she could possibly lose, and she was more likely to gain, as icfishies is a +EV sportsbettor. At the same time, icfishies was taking 100% of the risk, yet only getting 50% of the potential profit. He wasn't doing this to make himself money. icfishies could have found far better spots. He could have gotten a far better deal for this (say, 10% of the profits taken out instead of 50%) from other people in his life who he knew and trusted. However, Angel needed the money badly, they were good friends, and he wanted to help her out.

I am now going to disclaim at this point that I am going to be throwing around some dollar figures, and they may not be 100% accurate. However, I promise you that they are close and definitely in the ballpark of what actually went down.

FACT: icfishies gave Vwls about $7000 in front money. She deposited $2000 initially into Sportsbook #1. They did well right off the bat, and the account ran up to about $14k, for a $12k total profit. Unfortunately, the book realized that Vwls was placing +EV bets (all being fed to her by icfishies), and they closed her account. However, she was allowed to withdraw all of the money, and did so. She now had $19k from the whole deal. $7k of it was icfishies' front money, and $12k was profit. Of that profit, $6k was hers, as per the agreement. This left her owing icfishies $13k of the $19k she had in her hands.

FACT: Rather than ask to be sent the $13k immediately, icfishies came up with another idea. It was the start of football season, and he suggested that she redeposit some of the money into Sportsbook #2, where they could bet +EV teasers. She put about $4k into Sportsbook #2, leaving her with $15k in her bank account. Unfortunately, teasers ran really bad that month, and the account went donkdown. However, icfishies knew she still had $15k left from the money that was withdrawn, so it was no big deal.

FACT: icfishies asked her to redeposit into the account. Vwls started to make excuses, and seemed to be stalling him. Despite their friendship and his complete trust of her, he started to get a bit worried.

FACT: After some more time passed, as the excuses mounted, icfishies knew there was something wrong. He confronted Vwls and asked her where the $15k was. She admitted to him that she spent it all on "personal things" going on in her life, and that the money was completely gone. This was complete theft. She was only holding the money, as the one to be depositing it to Sportsbook #2. It was never hers to spend, regardless of how much she may have needed it. Even worse, most of the $15k wasn't even hers. Of that money, $11k belonged to icfishies, while $4k belonged to her. The difference comes from the fact that icfishies put in $7k initially, so their actual profit at this point was only $8k, split two ways to $4k each. So spending $4k would still have been wrong, since she agreed to use ALL of the money on betting teasers. However, at least she could argue that the first $4k was techincally hers. The other $11k was not hers, and was straight up stolen.

FACT: Rather than freaking out and creating a thread entitled "Rolled: A Fckvwls Saga", icfishies calmly asked her what they could do to rectify this. She promised to make every effort to pay him back, and would start sending him money ASAP.

FACT: This occurred about 1 1/2 years ago. No money has been sent. Vwls predictably drifted away from their friendship, and seemed to be avoiding him. Regardless of whether or not the friendship was ruined, it was her responsibility to pay him back, especially after apologizing profusely and swearing she would make every effort in her life to get him the money ASAP. Yet he doesn't have a dime from her yet.

FACT: icfishies finally gave up chasing her and wrote it off as a loss.

FACT: icfishies did visit Vwls in Phoenix at one point. The visit was completely of a platonic nature, and I think it might have had something to do with giving her the initial $7k. I forgot exactly when this visit occurred, but I believe it was right before the whole sportsbetting debacle started. Nothing sexual happened between them. Neither of them tried anything. Nobody got rejected. Nobody had any expectations of romantic/sexual interaction.

FACT: icfishies was never "in love" with Vwls. They were nothing more than good friends at one point.


Vwls, I am very disappointed that you are outright making up lies about this whole matter, in order to make yourself look good. Let's review:

LIE #1:


FALSE! He did give her cash, but there was never "up front" money given in order to do this for him. She was already going to get 50% of the winnings with zero risk, so he didn't need to give her any money up front to make this a worthwhile exercise for her. The cash he gave her was for 100% use of depositing into sportsbooks, and that was completely understood by both parties.


LIES #2 & #3:


TOTALLY FALSE! Vwls neglects to mention that there were TWO sportsbooks involved. The first book, which closed their account, saw the two of them making a $12k profit, and she withdrew $14k from it! It was only the second sportsbook where they never withdrew, but she only put about $4k back into that one. There was still $15k unaccounted for, and that money vanished because she stole it. She is offering to "post transcripts from that site" because there was never a withdrawal from the SECOND sportsbook. However, there WAS a $14k withdrawal from the FIRST sportsbook, and she also blew the remaining $5k of his front money.

And why didn't they continue? Was it because icfishies was down on himself? NO! It was because she stole the $15k they were supposed to have to continue betting with ($11k of which was icfishies' money), and there wasn't any more money to bet. How despicable to blame their ceasing of placing bets on the guy being "down on himself" when in reality it was because she stole all of the money in the bankroll!




One more thing. I want it known that icfishies did not "bring this story" to me in order to cause NWP drama. He is not involved with forums anymore and honesty hates crap like this. I knew about it because I am his friend, and it especially infuriated me for that reason. The guy got rolled big time, and Vwls has not lifted a finger to make things right in the 1 1/2 years since. As she kept claiming innocence with having no "shady dealings" and accusing me of lying, this eventually tilted me to make the post I did last night. I still was hoping we wouldn't have to air the entire story, but once GAMBLE-BOT posted a lot of the details, followed by Angel's response full of lies, obviously the cat was out of the bag.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 01:37 PM

Is this why Vwls always has mad love for Weiss.......who knows just putting it out there

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 01:39 PM

lol, yes, I taught her the tricks of the trade baby!

Posted by: Slim1988 Jan 30 2009, 01:40 PM

obv

Posted by: TurnDonkeyTurn Jan 30 2009, 01:44 PM

Sick. Did *all* of this information come directly from IC's mouth?

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 01:50 PM

Yes. All of the information I know came from him directly.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 01:52 PM

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 01:54 PM

VWLS is a cyber grifter, this guy what got rolled was looking for an angle, i think it all plays out 50-50..........but its still wrong what went down and i would be pissed off if i was icfishes.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 01:56 PM

And knowing all of this you employed her as a mod?

Fuck.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 01:56 PM

ur so gay

Posted by: ucntcmebch Jan 30 2009, 02:04 PM

toldya.obv


vwls is such an obv piece of shit. I bet her mom would be rolling in her grave (if it was possible for her mom to know shit after she was dead) if she knew how her funeral was paid for.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 02:05 PM

Also Boris is shit, it is im soz, but its fucken shit lol.

Posted by: HugePair Jan 30 2009, 02:09 PM

That really sucks. I think Druff handled it the best way he could and Vwls kind of forced his hand. (if what icfishies told druff was true)

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 02:09 PM

uragoodposterdude

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 02:10 PM

I was with Druff all the way on this one. Banter aside I've always reckoned him a decent bloke.

But again I ask- if he knew all this what was he thinking hiring Vwls as a mod?

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 02:22 PM

Most Nwp users are guys,is there anyone who read this shit and thinks poor IC what a nice guy he wanted nothing but was throwing around loads of cash to help a friend.Please.


IC was after something,hes not all fuckin innocent and nicey pie regardless of whether ultimately he got rolled.

I remember years ago when I did drugs and girls I knew would turn up with free coke,free pills and free grass......fuckin huge lumps or bags and saying they got it from some "Platonic mate".....utter bollocks,those guys are generally blokes trying to buy pussy in a nice guy routine way.

What a load of wank on both sides,and as for you in the middle Druff trying to convince us of his good intentions,please stop this bullshit and call a spade a spade...............some idiot got rolled trying to get some pussy in a shitty contrived way.Was an Easy mark,SFO.

sweetblog

Posted by: EripSnoc Jan 30 2009, 02:26 PM

wow and what a bad spot to just take all the money, if she would of been patient she could of possibly made atleast double what she stole legitimately.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 02:27 PM

Douchebags. Wait for her response before you take sides. This thing is a little complicated. For instance, when does the "profit" start and end? If IC wins 20k one night, does Vwlls get that profit for the night? Or if he loses most back that week, does she lose that? Is profit calculated by the day, week, month, year, two years? WHat? How could this not be addresses because its important. If ICFishies started with a huge run, maybe vwlls always thought she was gonna win and spent that as her money. She had expenses maybe it was her money and spent it. Then we he loses money he's like Waitt! theres no profit!!!


No one defined the terms of the "profit period". If he never did, his bad.

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 02:27 PM

Whether he overpaid for gambling services in hope of pussy services is pretty insignificant as he'd already written that off before the alleged rolling amount.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 02:28 PM

lol, thats where Druff lack of social skills gets in the way...

he doesn't realize ic is obv not gonna be like "yeah, im into her, but I havent gotten with her etc"

Fishies was obv in love with her, or just short of that. Nothing more, nothing less.


Regardless its pretty sad that he can't come and tell his own story, he has to feed it to Druff.

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 02:28 PM

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 02:30 PM

Get your point GB, but it has been said that he has already confronted her about being owed money and tried to arrange a payment schedule, don't really see how that could be 'up in the air' over a year later.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 02:30 PM

Shes got a point by point response coming soon. on boris.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 02:37 PM

I mean come on guys, 50% of the profit???? How -EV is that. He was one of two things:


1. Trying to be generous
2. Looking for pussy.


Ill take him for his word. He says its plutonic? Well then he was being generous. That doesnt mean he deserves to be rolled but:




What if he says only Ill give you half the profits. First night he wins 30k. She thinks (she is a girl, prolly not experienced sports bettor) she has 15k to spend. SO she pays for funeral next day. Dude goes on a losing streak. What do you want her to do....unbury her mom?





being too generous vwlls had to know that and if it doesnt work out with undefined unclear terms, why should she pay back?

Posted by: SetofKs Jan 30 2009, 02:44 PM

"god bless the dumb niggaz that trust these hoes"-2pac

Posted by: HugePair Jan 30 2009, 02:45 PM

For Gamble:

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 02:51 PM

Boy, some of you are missing the point big time.

First off, why does it matter in the first place if icfishies wanted to ultimately get laid out of it? He didn't, but that is totally unimportant here.

Here is what IS important:

1- she outright stole 11k that wasn't hers.

2- she admitted to him that she stole it and promised to pay it back immediately. 18 months later, he hasn't received 1 red cent.

3- she straight up lied about it on boris today, blaming his losing streak on why their arrangement ended, rather than her own theft.


Weiss, stop trying to turn this around ok me or fishies. I understand she was there for you during your last helsing attempt, but you're looking like a fool taking up for her here. Or is this just a case of scammers sticking together?

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 02:54 PM

her response





and dude agreed with you, and I believe ICFishies when he told me that he wasnt trying to get a piece...... He was obv being generous with the 50%, let her tell her side of the fucking story before you try to destroy this friendly, helpful working Mom. You have posted shit on the profit sharing arrangement thus so far you havent posted anything. Simply saying "half" to vwlls doesnt mean anything because there is no time cut off. Address that point please.

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 02:55 PM

Druff I have always liked you as a poster but i dont always agree with you.In this case IC may not have deserved a rolling but he was playing with fire by using money to get laid in an underhand routine,his whole involvement here is not totally innocent and wholesome.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 02:55 PM

If you have a shitload of information obtaind via PMs please disclose so it is possible to discuss properly

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 02:59 PM

I talked to both IC Fishies and Vwlls on the phone.

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 03:00 PM

did he offer you any financial aid or to come visit ?

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 03:01 PM

I offered a romantic trip for us in Niagra Falls, but we couldn't get our schedules together. Druff will meet me there instead.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 03:01 PM

Then why the fuck do you pass it of as FACT that he was not trying to get laid ?

Posted by: donk_tilt Jan 30 2009, 03:01 PM

The only detail that matters is if she really acknowledged she owed him money and said herself she would pay him back. Find her saying that, because obviously she is guilty if she is in writing saying "sorry I fucked up and will pay you back."

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 03:05 PM

maybe you could teach him to be cool in exchange for some poker wisdom.

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 03:06 PM

exactly, whether or not he paid extra money in hope of pussy is insignificant, all men pay for it one way or the other, the 11k 'rolling' is the issue because vwls is flat out denying it

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 03:10 PM

I disagree slightly with this,yes its not a good reason for getting rolled but he had no good reason to be involved here as the good samaritan.He is a smart guy and my guess is he had plenty of options available to keep himself in action.This was a side game/exercise for him that went arseways,undeserved but not beyond reason.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 03:11 PM

Youre posting shit from a third party.

Lets hear ICfishies say this shit, instead of having some little kike do it for him.

And to be straight up honest, I really don't care.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 03:14 PM

Nah, if straight up comes out and says that she said she owed him money, than its a straight up rolling and their is a huge discrepency.

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 03:17 PM

Agree ICfishes needs to post and confirm his accusations now and assume he hasn't yet due to his name only recently being outed.

Posted by: felon™ Jan 30 2009, 03:18 PM

how the fuck does Sofa lose his bag? thats worse than someone voting against Rickey Henderson for the HOF

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 03:18 PM

Do you think he needed her help ?

Do you think he had other ideas ?

The story here is she needed money,why is he offering to give her half his action for doing nothing ?

In essence he seems to want to help her which is admirable and ultimately he helps her out bigtime but he gets rolled by a so called friend,I agree it sucks for him but he helped her out when there was no need and she was seemingly high risk.

Posted by: Epistate Jan 30 2009, 03:20 PM

oh only a couple of thousand. I feel bad that John had a bad run. im sure what she did was worth so much more than that

Posted by: macon_marc Jan 30 2009, 03:22 PM

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 03:22 PM

you're correct Sirlimp, but the issue is Vwls is denying taking the money

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 30 2009, 03:25 PM

well in that case....

was an easy mark SFO.

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 03:28 PM

This is the least appropriate thread in NWP history.

- A degenerate gambler enters into a loosely defined partnership with a chick he knew from a degenerate poker site.

- He runs bad and loses monies. Girl spent more than she should have of some of the monies as well.

- Third party who has beef with girl dredges up the details years later and acts like he just blew open the Watergate scandal

A retard-fucking has-been who is banned from ESPN for being a complete embarrassment of a human being has consistently comported himself with more class and style than the mods at this site, even when discussing brokering a deal with a suicidal drug addicted whore for some pee-hole in exchange for stakes.

Let this be a life lesson for anyone new to this culture; this is what being a poker person will bring you to as far as I can tell. Complete breakdown of any sense of social decorum combined with a vindictive streak as deep as the Bering Straights and every bit as cold.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 03:31 PM

Just looked at Boris again...............still shit

:circlejerksarenotforme

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 03:31 PM

I think GB spelled out how this exact circumstance would come to pass, eg no one telling vwls exactly what money was her and what wasnt, or when she was allowed to cash out whatever constituted profits.

Vwls is sitting there with funeral expenses looking at 30k of profit, sfo she cuts and runs with her 15k.

Obv good friend calls her and says "wahh fuck it im getting clobbered i need the other half o the monies" makes her response of "o shit i thought the monies was mine, im sorry ill try to pay you back" perfectly reasonable and light years away from anything i would call a rolling.

Posted by: kirklaja Jan 30 2009, 03:31 PM

:HOF

coming from a guy that guy used to be a strip club dj, its a helluvan indictment.

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 03:32 PM

pretty sure this is going to be my new cell phone ring tone.

pretty.. pretty sure.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 03:32 PM

Surely that makes this the MOST appropriate thread in NWP history?

Posted by: donk_tilt Jan 30 2009, 03:33 PM

Guy if somebody is owed 10k+ it doesn't matter when and how it comes out, I'm sure Druff is getting soo much pleasure from this.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 03:35 PM

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 03:35 PM

She will come back and say she doesn't think she owes anything, and the reasons will be X,Y,Z.

Druff will call her a liar and blah blah blah

FckVwls will call him a liar again and blah blah

back n forth like a fucking rodeo joke.


The end.

Posted by: Epistate Jan 30 2009, 03:37 PM

too bad they never had 30k and there isn't a way to come up with 15k profit according to what has presented so far, not to mention she is claiming that she didn't make that amount, so i don't think the discrepancy can be based on wording.

Someone is lying, simple as that

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 03:37 PM

10k i hope that tombstone was nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Beenstaring Jan 30 2009, 03:37 PM

dan druff is nothing but lies. that's not even his real name

Posted by: donk_tilt Jan 30 2009, 03:38 PM

Agree 100% That's why I'm saying the only way to really prove anything is if she is in writing acknowledging debt, that would be pretty damning evidence that she wronged him.

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 03:42 PM

I understand this, but the problem with that train of thought is Druff posted that IC didn't recieve a single penny back at any point so there was no profit to be divided and vwls isn't stupid, plus Druff said IC had confronted Vwls and they agreed she owed him the money.
So yes as someone already posted, someone is lying here and that is all there is too it. It may not be easy to conclusive prove either way, but people will be able to make a reasonable judegement at some point.

Posted by: sonatine Jan 30 2009, 03:45 PM

youre right of course, i probably overstepped with my devils advocate schtick.

weiss killed it tho, this thread has zero potential and even less interest for me at this point.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 03:46 PM

Bascially icfishes paid for Vwls mom funeral

Grifter
Angleshooter

Boris is still shit

Posted by: micon Jan 30 2009, 03:54 PM

1) I hope some of you can see why she *had* to be fired. I was told about a massive rolling (recently, not when it happened) she was involved in, then saw her (without my or Druff's permission) taking and holding $ for a photoshop contest. I wonder how many 'Stars transfers she actually received / paid out.

2) I still am sorry for the way I did it. I will never do that to anyone ever again.

3) I denied $20k to wear NWP instead of FTP. I fired Vwls because I'm not going to let her continue to fuck people out of money / run my business the way she wanted. If that is bed shitting then I have shat. If that is protecting my users and my NWP then my sheets are clean.

Posted by: Tapper Jan 30 2009, 03:55 PM

pretty disturbing allegations.

gamblebot et al, u really cant defend these actions or come up with a plausible scenario where she was doing the right thing.

seems more like after the initial positive results she assumed the $$$ would keep rolling in as per the first few bets and simply paid herself an advance, hoping that icfishies would soon make up the difference with winning bets. This is not acceptable.

fck vwls i a great poster content-wise, but based on this story removing her as a mod seems like a sensible idea.

however, Druff now you have also handled this situation poorly and the making her swear on her daughters life is obviously in bad taste. You should have simply come out with the facts in ur first post or handled the matter privately.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 03:56 PM

Yo Boris sucks dude, suck a fucken dick

Posted by: Devilfishfan Jan 30 2009, 03:58 PM

You dumb kike... The "rolling" had nothing to do with NWP except that maybe they originally met here. Not only have there been zero complaints from NWP users missing money they sent to her, but she gave out stakes for your tourneys that you NEVER promoted on time.

Posted by: ProfessionalSpectator Jan 30 2009, 03:59 PM

VWLS became a stupid bitch in my book when the whole "pictures stolen from her" fiasco happened.

These cases almost always have truth somewhere in the middle of both sides. However, VWLS has way more reason to lie about this than Druff or ICFishies.

BTW - now that she's gone, can someone post the nude pics of her that were found on the net? The only one I ever saw was an ass-in-thong shot.

Posted by: micon Jan 30 2009, 04:00 PM

1) Zero complaints in your PM box, not mine.
2) Didn't have to give out stakes
3) Rolled a dude she met on NWP for $10,000+ and you are defending her. You are officially retarded.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 04:03 PM

Who the fuck are you kiddin, you didnt take the 20K because you thought you would make a hell of a lot more in the long run with NWP.

Dont insult our intelligence

Posted by: Luckwinsout Jan 30 2009, 04:04 PM

Posted by: Peanut_Butter_Crunch Jan 30 2009, 04:06 PM

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 04:13 PM

Peanut butter CRUNCH makes a good point.

Posted by: micon Jan 30 2009, 04:13 PM

Didn't have time to do the math, and in fact didn't care if it was more +EV to wear NWP or FTP - I just wanted to wear that donkey on TV just like I told Druff. It wasn't a choice about $. And I'm sure you are very intelligent.

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 04:14 PM

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:14 PM

Who banned Hector?? a while back

Posted by: Luckwinsout Jan 30 2009, 04:14 PM

Hey Micon you hiring?

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 04:20 PM

Headshot

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 04:22 PM

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to how this whole thing came out.

Icfishies did not ask me to post this stuff here. I did it on my own, having knowledge of the story, and feeling pissed off about it. I was angry about two things. First, I was furious that she rolled my friend and was making ZERO effort to pay him back. Second, I was digusted by her indignant attitude, insisting that she never rolled anyone.

Don't expect icfishies to come out here, because he is not looking to take part in this spectacle. This is my doing, and while he knows I'm out here talking about it, he isn't going to take part. I wish he would, but it's his choice. However, if you are suspicious that I am not telling the story properly, I'm sure I could arrange a 3 way call with someone neutral here, where he would verify that I am telling the truth.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:24 PM

Basically icfishes was rolled for 10k by vwls(grifter)

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 04:31 PM

Wow.

This woman knows how to lie convincingly, I'll give her that.

She rewrote history above, plain and simple. I am posting this (and the last) message from a cell phone, so I can't write up another novel responding to this just yet.

I will be back home at about 6pm, at which time I will respond in proper detail. Stay tuned.

Suffice to say that the is a bit confusing right now, but I will prove her to be an outright liar in the coming days. Some of you are already seeing the holes and contradictions in her various stories today.

The truth shall set you free, angel. Try telling it for once.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:34 PM

Druff dont take it personell shes a pro grifter seen that shit like a billion times.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 04:36 PM

We've finally got to the bottom of things.

Posted by: Peanut_Butter_Crunch Jan 30 2009, 04:38 PM

I'm really digging Indian chicks now..........

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:38 PM

You must admit boris sucks.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 04:40 PM

Aye, and peanut butter crunch is what you get if you have shitty ass lick with women.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 04:41 PM

You not being there sure isn't hurting the site.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 04:42 PM

Fuck off Nazi.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:44 PM

It still sucks, all i see is bitterness from that site, nothing i want to be part of.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 04:48 PM

STFU u British fruitcake kike, met some of your kind in Tenerife and beat the shit out of them one actually started crying like a little bitch.
Would fuckin love to meet you and smash your face in.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 04:49 PM

Aye, its just a site full of haters and there's nothing I hate more than haters.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:50 PM

Boris is built on shit.

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 04:51 PM

I think this is worth asking/pertinent.

Is Fckvwls account on NWP available to her yet?

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 04:51 PM

Tenerife? I doubt you've ever seen the sunlight from your parent's basement you inbred snownigger.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 04:52 PM

Shes proven untrustworthey fuck her.

Posted by: hutmaster Jan 30 2009, 05:11 PM

I see a couple of holes in VWLS last response................

So we are to assume that $3500 was deposited and she spent $3500 initially. She admits she was entitled to 50% of the profits and this initial $3500 was basically an advance as he was confident he could run up the account.



VWLS claims that the initial account was run up to no more than $10K. If we take $10K as the high figure, she was owed nothing additional at this time, since profits would have been only $6500 and they needed to reach $7K for her to "earn" the initial $3500 advanced to her. Yet VWLS claims that only 1/2 of the money at that point was John's.



VWLS then claims to have scraped together somewhere between $1k and $1.5K to deposit again. So if we take her figures as the correct ones, she still made out with an extra $2-3K that she was not entitled to.

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 30 2009, 05:17 PM

You are either a nigger, wigger or gyppo if you go to Tererife - which one are you?

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 05:21 PM

lol this didnt happen obv.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 30 2009, 05:28 PM

Actually I am racist after all- I fuckin hate gippos. And Norwegians.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 05:33 PM

I find this extremly funny since the whole fuckin place is overcrowded with englishmen with fuckin homemade tatoos
uglys as fuck and probaby dont know how to use a toothbrush, bodys in the most pisspor condition ever imaginable.

a fuckin 15 year old would put up a better fight.
OBV was fun to smak the ladies around.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 05:35 PM

oh noes

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 05:36 PM

I

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 30 2009, 05:37 PM

Because those are gyppos.

Tenerife is cheap = gyppo.

They probably wore gold like it was going out of style too right?

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 30 2009, 05:40 PM

There is hope for you yet my son!

Hang around the 207 bus route after 9pm and I think you will be saved!

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 05:43 PM

Didnt see much gold but they shure as shit thought a footballjersy gave them superpowers, OBV didnt

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 05:44 PM

You didnt batter anyone fromthe uk admit it.

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 30 2009, 05:47 PM

I guarantee they had a Sov on at least.

Only English trash from the bottom of the social rung go to Spain, Tenerife, Costa Del Sol etc etc.

The rest of us go to Amsterdam and smoke Hash, or go to Germany and get shitfaced.

Obv.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 05:47 PM

true story
end of story

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 05:49 PM

Dude u get smashed i think thats what really happened

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 05:51 PM

Im not argueing that, Im just saying how it was when we were there

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 05:53 PM

All i hear is propaganda and lies

Posted by: Slim1988 Jan 30 2009, 05:58 PM

Why did ic give Fck 7k, 2 or 3 to depost, and the rest for funeral expenses, over a year and a half ago, and Fck's mom just died a couple of months ago?

Posted by: Shooz Jan 30 2009, 06:02 PM

that was her dad more recently I think, there was definitely a bereathment all that time ago anyway, the funeral expenses were discussed around the time Gamblebot was doing his reciept chargeback thing for people and Vwls was hoping for a windfall from that.

Posted by: Slim1988 Jan 30 2009, 06:12 PM

No, it was her Mom just a couple of months ago. I had a PM, but deleted it. I'm sure many people can confirm I am right, because I only ever talked to her through PM, like 3 times, and she still told me.

Posted by: hutmaster Jan 30 2009, 06:22 PM

Her mom died sometime in 2007.

Posted by: missidaho Jan 30 2009, 06:26 PM

I'm too lazy to read all this. Is she really gone?

Can we get NWP back to the way it use to be now? Back before all the VIP and ban council bullshit? NWP lost its interest for me when it started being run like highschool girl's club. I miss the old NWP. Can we have it back now?

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 06:27 PM

Vwls should have been working for Absolute Poker instead of NWP all of this time. She has demonstrated an excellent ability at constantly changing her story as more incriminating information gets revealed. That skill is extremely valuable over there.

First Vwls says that there was no rolling, period.

Then she suddenly has an "idea" as to what I might be referring to, which is odd considering that I gave no details initially what I was talking about, and according to her, she never rolled icfishies.

Then GAMBLE-BOT drops the bomb, and she conjures up a story that there was never a withdrawal made.

Then I point out the fact that there were TWO accounts -- one which won, one which lost -- something she conveniently left out of the previous story. Now she spins a tale that, yes, there was a withdrawal, but 100% of the money went right back into the second account, where all of it was lost. Oh, oh, and she was given $3500 up front for her mom's funeral that she was never expected to pay back, right?

Her version of events is constantly evolving, and is always tailored to hide the simple truth that she outright stole $11,000 from icfishies.

First off, it is preposterous to believe that icfishies just gave her $3500 as a gift up front. Why would he do that? She was already going to be getting 50% of all winnings with literally ZERO risk. Do you think he offered $3500 on top of that? Obviously it's his word against hers, but let's use some common sense here. He brought 7k down to Arizona as seed money. $3500 would not have been an adequate bankroll for what they were planning upon betting at the first site. If anyone is experienced with bankroll requirements for sportsbetting, it's icfishies. So she's trying to spin a tale that they deposited $2k to the first site, leaving themselves just $1500 to reload? Give me a break! All $7000 was intended to be used for sportsbet deposits, and this was made very clear to her. Even if you want to believe that she really took the $3500 with his permission (which isn't true), it would be far more likely to be a loan than a gift. But that's immaterial, because it just didn't happen that way. Think about the numbers involved here, think about the fact that you are dealing with an experience sportsbettor who understands variance, and you'll realize who is telling the truth and who is lying.

Second, it is simply UNTRUE that every bit of money won from the first site was lost at the second. Angel said that I claimed all $19k went to the 2nd site. That's not what I said at all. On the contrary, a much smaller amount, like $4k, went into the 2nd site. I am combining the total put in, not the initial money loaded there. I will admit to not having the exact figures, but FAR MORE was won on the first site than was lost on the 2nd site. This means that there was profit that icfishies never got to get his hands on. In addition, his initial $7000 seed money was also gone.

The bottom line: Even if you want to believe her story that the second account lost all of the first account's profits, where did the $7k seed money go? If they broke completely even, icfishies deserved 7k back. He got nothing. And from the numbers I was given, the two accounts showed a net profit of approximately 8k, which meant that 4k of that was also icfishies' money.

I am starting to suspect that Vwls has already contacted the sportsbooks in question, and found out that their records don't go back that far. I feel that she's attended the Mark Seif school of cover-ups: Proudly offer proof that you know isn't available, then act surprised when you can't get it. But don't worry. Often you CAN get these records, it just takes some effort.

The truth will set you free.

Some people like Hutmaster are already finding holes in her story and numbers that aren't adding up. Notice that my story has never wavered, and everything I have said makes perfect sense and is never contradictory. Notice that her statements are the opposite. Wonder why?

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 06:28 PM

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 06:29 PM

Unrelated topic:

I know that some people have been PMing me to get back on NWP, as I promised to restore nearly anyone's account during the radio show.

I am not going back on that promise, I have just been busy. I will get to it tonight.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 06:33 PM

Boris is shit it...... is fucken shit lol.

Posted by: ucntcmebch Jan 30 2009, 06:36 PM

Can who ever thinks vwls isn't a scammer please say so in this thread for giggles and so we know who the total dumb fucks are.

vwlsisascammingbitch.jiz

Posted by: ucntcmebch Jan 30 2009, 06:50 PM

Sorry about the double post but I thought SPORK made a great point on Boris


"That's retarded. If someone was accusing me of stealing from my friend when I had not, and all I had to do was call my friend and say hey can you go post that everything is on the up and up to clear my name, I would have already done so instead of waiting for this friend to call me and "discuss" the matter."

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 06:51 PM

Something else worth mentioning here, that has actually already been pointed out a few times by some neutral observers on Boris:

FckVwls was especially nasty and passive-aggressive toward icfishies in her last response. Notice how she threw in tons of personal, private details about their conversations that had no bearing on the story. Why does it matter if he was having a bad year? Why does it matter if he was calling you and acting depressed about it? Why is this the business of anyone on NWP, if you actually care about the guy and like him? It has ZERO relevance to the story.

All you had to say was, "On the second account, icfishies had a bad run and the money was lost."

That's it. The rest of the crap afterwards, delving into detail regarding their personal conversations, was intentionally thrown in just as a "fuck you" to him for telling me about her scamming ways.

This was so transparent that even people on Boris are calling her out about it.

Awful.

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 06:51 PM

Now I see why you are stressing (stating as a FACT) that he didnt want to fuck her / was in love with her, because the quoted above is VERY likely if he wanted to get with her.

Not saying she didnt roll him but your common sense doesnt apply in every situation.

Posted by: missidaho Jan 30 2009, 06:52 PM

I believe it. Not because I really know anything about what happened, but becasue I know she is a liar. I lost respect for her over a year and a half ago when she pulled me in to one of her immature bullshit little dramabombs and have been further disgusted at watching the decline of NWP since she joined the admin team. I'm glad she is gone. NWP will be better off without her. And maybe .... just maybe ... you'll get some other (noncrazy) girls posting here again.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 06:53 PM

Hi, missidaho. It would be very nice if you would return actively to NWP. And not just because you're the official Todd Witteles fangirl.

But yes, things have changed.

No more cliques in control of bannings / suspensions / post limitations / private forums / etc.

No more mods running out of control.

I am now taking a much more active role running this place, and any user who feels slighted in any way is welcome to take their concerns to me directly.

Posted by: missidaho Jan 30 2009, 06:57 PM

Thanks Todd. I've been reading about all the changes you've posted in the last few days. Sounds promising.

I've pm'ed you. I'm sure you've gotten alot recently. Check it when you get a chance.

Posted by: cmoneyinvegas Jan 30 2009, 06:57 PM

THIS ALL SOUNDS PRETTY FAMILIAR - MAYBE JUST CAUSE THE AMOUNTS ARE ABOUT THE SAME

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 07:08 PM

Yea and there are people on this site that need to pay up. They said they would give her 10%. People made from $100 to $3k on this deal. Pay the lady. Also all the Euro's besides Shooz please quit fucking up threads with your senseless Euro on Euro in-fighting. This is just as dumb as different types of chinks trying to seperate themselves. Theres no difference between Japs, Chinks, gooks and whatever the hell you call Koreans. There should be no differences between you fucking cave dwellers.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 07:08 PM

She already admitted in one of her posts that she probably would have been interested if he expressed the desire to be with her romantically/sexually.

She also admitted that he never did so in any way, shape, or form.

So obviously this isn't a case of some dude being in love with a girl and being bitter that she turned him down. That just never played into the equation.

I also know the guy personally, and he tells me when he's interested in a girl he's talking to. When I asked him about Vwls, he said they were just platonic friends, and that he wasn't looking to see it become anything more than that.

Just because it's a rolling between a male and female doesn't mean that sex/romance/jealousy is involved. In many cases it is, but in this case, it isn't. Looking at everything said on both sides so far, that should be fairly clear.

And again, this is a dumb topic to debate because it has ZERO bearing on the story.

Anyway, if he wanted to give her $3500 up front to get into her pants, then he would have brought more than $7000 total to Phoenix. $3500 was a completely inadequate bankroll for what they were doing. If $3500 of the $7k was actually for her, he would have brought $10,500 to Phoenix instead.

Obviously I can't prove this first part, but use some common sense here. Considering her ever-changing story, who do you think is more likely telling the truth about this?

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 30 2009, 07:09 PM

This topic need some humor

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 07:09 PM

No there was an accident at the grave where the coffin slid off a hill or some damn thing. Someone close to her that had died a while back.

Posted by: jd Jan 30 2009, 07:11 PM

Couldn't agree with you more.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 07:12 PM

Because he is dragging her through the mud. If she is telling the truth he is an asshole and deserves worse. You are looking at it from his standpoint because yu believe his story 100% and believe her to be a liar. I still believe the truth is in the middle.

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 07:14 PM

3-1 on what we discussed

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 07:14 PM

If its so bad Karl, why do you have to keep repeating it? Its just a site, with a majority of NWP's posters. You are a horrible poster so no one cares.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 30 2009, 07:15 PM

Then she should be honest that she is posting this stuff out of spite, and not maintain the false role of the caring friend.

I know that his story is 100% true, and this will make itself clear in the coming days.

Posted by: 408mike Jan 30 2009, 07:19 PM

Well you got your wish druff. You have your multi-page thread with tons of views. I mean everyone still hates you for it but still...CONGRATS!!!!

PS NOONE FUCKING CARES AND ANYONE THAT DOES SHOULD TAKE A GOOD LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK- IS SUICIDE FOR ME? THE ANSWER IS QUITE CLEAR.

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 30 2009, 07:22 PM

I see your still in Love

Posted by: macon_marc Jan 30 2009, 07:37 PM

fyp

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 07:37 PM

Its still shit i know about these things, no need to get nasty!!!!

Posted by: Peanut_Butter_Crunch Jan 30 2009, 07:39 PM

Okay I also like Asian girls like Hyori Lee:

Posted by: repoman Jan 30 2009, 07:43 PM

Another simple dynamic at play here is Vwls admitting she was on fumes, and needing the extra juice... makes a semi-decent person into a potential scammer. The real story here is not owning up to the rolling and just saying "I fucked up, was desperate for cash and I need to pay you back". No payback in 1.5 yrs then leads to rationalizing that it didn't really happen, and the bat shit crazy female mind does the rest.

Ship Vwls the scammatar.

Ditto everything Miss Idaho said, NWP is already the better for it.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 07:46 PM

Miss idaho is god

Posted by: 408mike Jan 30 2009, 07:48 PM

Oh, please don't quote someone and change what they said and turn it into an attack on me. Please, don't marc. Please don't. I can't bear the thrashings make it stop!

Posted by: 408mike Jan 30 2009, 07:48 PM

Oh, please don't quote someone and change what they said and turn it into an attack on me. Please, don't marc. Please don't. I can't bear the thrashings make it stop!

Posted by: soccertease Jan 30 2009, 08:05 PM

Posted by: MrJones Jan 30 2009, 08:13 PM

Michael, summary.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 30 2009, 08:16 PM

Have to say........Boris is probably still shit

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 30 2009, 08:33 PM

Dude you have been riding managements balls hard lately. Are you jimmying for a mod position rooster?

Posted by: DirtyB Jan 30 2009, 08:39 PM

Now that is the best argument you've maybe ever made on this site. You laid out your story, you laid out her story, and compared the two. Nicely done.

Posted by: easternmh Jan 30 2009, 08:39 PM

Druff is probably wrong on the details considering if he was such good friends w/IC you'd think he'd know how to bet a wong teaser properly

Posted by: Connor17 Jan 30 2009, 09:14 PM

Posted by: CheckRaise Jan 30 2009, 09:22 PM

:blackcock

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 30 2009, 09:31 PM

lol, you're wrong

Posted by: michael Jan 30 2009, 09:39 PM

Druff thinks vwls is a scammer, vwls says she is not a scammer. They are no longer friends.

Posted by: icrackdeuces Jan 30 2009, 10:22 PM

LOL. No doubt. It's a shame it went on for as long as it did. I'm glad druff is finally showing how full of shit
Vwls is. I have seen through her facade for a long time. This site has sucked black cock (literally) for a long
time mainly because of her. She always claimed to have NWP's best interests in mind but all she really wanted was a place where she and her e-friends could circle jerk each other (VIP) and harass other users they didn't like
(Ban Council). She is a liar and a basketcase, period. It's actually pretty funny how she manipulated some of the
idiots on NWP just by dishing out a few kind words here and there. She even tried her little bullshit act with me
when I pm'd her about fucking with my account, lol. Obviously, I saw right through her nonsense and just stopped
posting.

Posted by: vegas1369 Jan 30 2009, 10:40 PM

Good to see you both back.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 31 2009, 12:02 AM

We Euros fight like brothers.

At the end of the day though we will always be united in our superiority to closet-bisexual sister-ogling tractor-pulling nascar-drooling cola-glugging redneck trash like you.

Posted by: Tapper Jan 31 2009, 12:05 AM

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 31 2009, 12:09 AM

I obey the GB.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 31 2009, 12:11 AM

We may have to have a fight.

Posted by: Cupid Stunt Jan 31 2009, 12:12 AM

Your mum!

Posted by: Tapper Jan 31 2009, 01:18 AM

wiganer is horrible

Posted by: sirlimpalot Jan 31 2009, 01:20 AM

Can we now have some insight into the rest of the rollings ? seems like there is around another 4 lurking in the closet.

Posted by: GrenadaRoger Jan 31 2009, 01:28 AM

if that's Vwls i might think the money was spent on breast enhancement and tanning salon sessions rather than anything else

Druff, i think you've made you point about Vwls and its time to wrap this up...while I think Vwls is stable, lets not subject her to prolonged torment as Brandi was...

and the fact remains Micon let her go in a classless manner, and the subsequent squabbling by Druff and Vwls is giving us all a cheap thrill at the expense of their reputations--everyone involved is tarnished somehow

Posted by: fuhoser Jan 31 2009, 03:05 AM

I think that vwls should have not been fired, especially in the manner she was. I don't know IC, but I know a bit about him and to say he agonized over every loss seems absurd. Likewise with sonatine chiming in at some point calling IC a "degenerate gambler" wtf sonatine, you have no clue on this. IC would have never paid her 3500 upfront to place bets. It would have been done a shared win basis. I have nothing personal against vwls, but I don't find her to be a very convincing liar. First time I heard her on the radio she seemed to have this weird mock indignation that disturbed me from the very beginning. It sucks that Micon/Druff are able to drag this up to justify the firing. They made it sound like she had abused her mod powers to make $$. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

Really, if you just look at motivations. IC must have been seriously spurned or he's an unstable wreck if what vwls says is true. It seems 20x more plausible that hes not and vwls just had this blow up in her face.

Posted by: ThreeUp3Down Jan 31 2009, 03:07 AM

Obviously people are always living little things out or completely changing the story to make them sound better. Bottom line is icfishies wanted to fuck her but probably doesn't have any balls to try to close. Vwls is clearly lying and rolled him and then is being a bitch by kicking the dude as well. Druff is only hurting his case by posting this since it has nothing to do with NWP except for the fact that you knew she scammed a well known member & still made her mod as well as airing out icfishies business which pretty out of line.

Cliff notes:
Icfishies has no game
Vwls is a scamming cunt
Druff is a douche

Posted by: macon_marc Jan 31 2009, 03:44 AM

So at the end of the day we all know to not trust women on the internet?






Also, met Jewdonk tonight. Decent pool player seemed like nice guy.


one more

Posted by: goodeats Jan 31 2009, 03:46 AM

In the absence of Howard Stern, I listened to the most recent (and ridiculously long) edition of NWP radio. In listening to the Vwls discussion, it became clear that she is very manipulative and incapable of being straightforward. Micon may be an inept boss, but she seems completely unmanageable. She was totally insubordinate and she gave them no choice but to fire her.

As for the rolling of icfishies, her repeatedly-revised story makes no sense. For example, in one of her posts she writes,

Druff says it was $19k that went from S.I. to Bookmaker, but it wasn’t anywhere near that much because as I said, the S.I. account wasn’t open long enough to make much money. Pretty sure it was less than 10K – it’s been two years so I honestly don’t remember but as I said when the faxes come in that will be shown. Anyway the point is that half of it was John’s, and every cent of his money went back into his new account. Twice. It might have been three times.

This statement implies that she claimed half of the bankroll just because they had to move their action to another site. If so, did she tell him that they were no longer splitting the wins and losses at the moment she took the money, or did she conveniently forget to mention this until he chunked off "his half" of the money? I imagine that she would have expected half of his winnings had things gone better with the second account.

Posted by: fuhoser Jan 31 2009, 04:03 AM

Also her continued fall backs on the faxes/emailed records or whatever the fuck. Obviously since the records go through her and are of an easily manipulated nature they hold no real value in determining anything. Yet she keeps referring to them as if we will all see she is telling the truth once she posts some document scans and that will be that.

Once you assume either she or IC (or possibly both) are lying, these documents mean next to nothing coming from her. We have no way of verifying them and she knows this.

She'd need to give up the pw/username to the acct and let someone else do it.,

Posted by: ProfessionalSpectator Jan 31 2009, 04:19 AM

PLZ pst the VWLS nude pics.

Also, it's SFOBV to anyone reasonable that she was and is still lying about this. Druff's / ICFishies story hasn't changed, her's continues to evolve at a record pace.

She's also a stupid cunt for being upset that this is being discussed at NWP. As someone who has been around NWP for a long time, she should know that this is exactly the type of discussion that NWP loves to have, and, quite frankly, is entitled to have.

PLZ pst the VWLS nude pics.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 31 2009, 06:33 AM

Why was the coffin sliding down the hill?

Posted by: Slim1988 Jan 31 2009, 06:55 AM

Ok - wish I still had the PM, I could have swore she told me it was her Mom that died. This was probably like Sept. or Oct, I'm not sure.


Also, why do people know about a coffin sliding off of a hill? That just sounds ridiculous. Who would talk to people from the internet about something like that? That sounds like some shit a scammer would make up. You people need to get off of the internet and stop talking to people on AIM and on the phone that you meet on a poker forum. Another ridiculous fact is that Fck and ic were real life friends and this has nothing to do with NWP.

IDK, whatever, I'll just keep reading, as I know nothing about all this.

Posted by: hutmaster Jan 31 2009, 07:07 AM

VWLS mom died sometime in 2007, she was evidently buried on a hillside. Supposedly after some heavy rains part of the hillside collapsed and part of the coffin was now visible. VWLS started a thread about it..... http://www.neverwinpoker.com/forums/shooting-off-f1-freak-accident-at-cemetery-im-fucked-t53817.html

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 31 2009, 07:09 AM

If i remember correctly pics were posted aswell.

Posted by: GAMBLE-BOT Jan 31 2009, 07:59 AM

Let Finklestein call the sportsbook next Wednesday.

Posted by: Wiganer Jan 31 2009, 09:12 AM

That story and the associated $40k-$100k estimate sure start to look fishy now.

Posted by: Karl_Pilkington Jan 31 2009, 09:27 AM

Posted by: vegas1369 Jan 31 2009, 11:06 AM

Good movie.

Posted by: Jewdonk Jan 31 2009, 02:43 PM

Met Macon Marc last night and his girlfriend is smokin hot

Posted by: studdbag Jan 31 2009, 03:34 PM

Posted by: Swift75 Jan 31 2009, 05:10 PM

Met a kike last night and he aint alive today

Posted by: missidaho Jan 31 2009, 05:57 PM

Glad to know there was at least one poster around here that didn't blindly jump on the Vwls bandwagon because he thought he might get laid. I completely agree with your assesment of what she was doing here. She wanted attention and so she sat around here 24 hours a day sweet talking the guys and making them think if they were cool to her they might have a chance with her. It amazed me that some woman in her 40s with no life was able to get all the young guys here to fall all over their dicks for her. Not that you guys were ever all that respetable to begin with, but it made me sick to watch you all make fools out of yourselves. This whole site got played by her and it appears that half of you are still following her around over at boris. Its embarassing to watch. If you guys honestly think there is nothing wrong with her scamming ic, than you are alot more degenerate than I thought and NWP would probably be a safer place without you. Good luck for when she finally gets around to fucking you over.

I'm hoping that maybe some of the girls that have passed through here in the past two years might come back now that she is gone. I know several that had bad run ins with Angel. She was rather hostile and bitchy toward any girl she thought might take attention away from her. Not that i think NWP needs to have a bunch of girls here (not a fan of girl drama) but it would be nice to have a few non psycho ones around.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 31 2009, 06:20 PM

if you think vwls is the only reason people bounced, then youre delusional.
also, youre only propogating your own bandwagon... dont get that confused with making a point.


:nicetits

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 06:24 PM

I'd like to thank FckVwls for her recent post on boris. She just made my job of proving my accusations against her much, much easier.

In a weak attempt to defend herself, she posted the following report of bets placed at bookmaker.com:



Somehow she thought that this record, which I believe to be authentic and accurate, would vindicate her. It did just the opposite.

This record shows that, between October 17, 2007, and December 23, 2007, $6050 was lost on bookmaker.com.

Geniuses like Serial Fail immediately praised her for "proving" herself innocent, proclaiming, "Druff loses again."

Not exactly.

Let's look at this one more time.

Remember that there were TWO sportsbooks involed, plus $7000 that icfishies gave her up front. Time to use her own quotes to prove her the liar that nearly all of us now realize she is.

First, just to recap, Angel/Vwls admitted to taking $7000 from icfishies before any betting was involved:

She later claimed that $3500 of that $7000 was for her personally, but we'll ignore that for now, and get to that at the end. Let's take the $7000 figure for now.

Next, she admitted (after several previous stories that avoided mentioning this) that the first sportsbetting foray -- on Sports Interaction -- was a success:



So she admits that she won "less than 10k" on Sports Interaction. I said that I believed the Sports Interaction account to have won 12k. However, we will be conservative here, and use her numbers, taking the "less than 10k" figure to mean 9k.

This means 7k (initial money given) plus 9k = 16k.

Basically, she has admitted to having 16k before putting ANY money into bookmaker.com.

Now she has posted the bookmaker.com records, showing a 6k loss.

Using the 6k figure, that should leave 10k.

So where did the rest of the money go?

Even by her own story, 10k is missing, and cannot be accounted for. Remember, all of the money was supposed to have been lost at bookmaker, yet she now admits bookmaker only showed a 6k loss!

So let's say there was 10k left, which I believe is a good deal lower than the real figure.

7k of that was icfishies' money to start with, so 100% of that should go back to him. That leaves 3k profit, which should be split 2 ways -- $1500 each.

This means that, even if you believe Angel's story, she still ripped off icfishies for $8500!

Now, what if he really did give her $3500 up front of the initial 7k, like she claimed? For reasons stated earlier, this is highly unlikely, but that STILL would leave 5k unaccounted for!

But what if the Sports Interaction account didn't win 9k? What if "less than 10k" of winnings wasn't 9k, but was actually less? Again, highly unlikely, but that will be proven as those records come out. However, for argument's sake, let's take the VERY WORST CASE scenario that the account only won something like 5k. (There's no way she would say "less than 10k" if the winnings were only 1k or 2k.)

Running those numbers, she would have had 12k after the first cashout, and 6k would have been lost back at bookmaker. Again, this would leave 6k unaccounted for.

There is absolutely NO WAY to spin this anymore to where she owes any less than 5k to icfishies -- even if you believe every word she ever posted!

And in reality, she actually owes somewhere in the neighborhood of 11k. Perhaps its a liittle more, perhaps it's a little less, but it's somewhere around there.

Angel, you hung yourself with your rush to post "proof" meant to vindicate you, which only served to hurt your cause (and credibility) even more. Congratulations.

Anyone with a basic understanding of 4th grade math now knows with 100% certainty that you're a scammer.

Game over.

Pay the man and stop trying to worm out of your shady dealings.

And I invite ANYONE to take this post (along with what she has already admitted to) and make a case for anything different than the above. You won't be able to.

Q.E.D.

S.F.O.

Posted by: kirklaja Jan 31 2009, 06:31 PM

one would also tend to think that if a site noted you were being "too successful" betting, youd have run that $3500 up pretty fucking good for them to notice. if all of this is true, itd be difficult to believe that account only had $6K in it when they shut it down.

Posted by: missidaho Jan 31 2009, 06:39 PM

SFG-

What badwagon? I have zero to gain by telling you how I feel about Angel. I have no interest in trying to take her place here. After today i'll probaly still go back to checking the forum maybe once a week and posting only occassionally. I don't have time to devote my life to a poker forum. I am also not looking for a fan club. I just don't like Angel. She screwed me over a year and a half ago. She told a lie and got caught. Instead of giving me an actual apology she gave me some bullshit about "as a woman you should understand that some times we have to lie to get the truth out of men." I know that she is full of shit and I have no respect for her. I know that she is not the reason so many of you left, but she is the reason I did. I'm sorry if it offends you that I am glad that she is gone, but she is just not some one I want to associate with. Since she has never done anything to you personally I can understand why you wouldn't have a problem with her. I on the otherhand have been burnt by her, so I don't want her around.

Posted by: PinoNeverWins Jan 31 2009, 06:39 PM

Holy shit - I'm dizzy reading all that Druff. Was hoping this kind of stuff wasn't true given I've talked to Angel on here and on the phone just to shoot the shit about a lot of things non-NWP related and really thought she was a cool and trustworthy person. But now the numbers definitely don't make any sense especially after the post of the Bookmaker shot and your explanation about the missing $$$ - over/under on how long it'll take Angel to rebuttal on Boris?

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 06:42 PM

Personally, I hope you stay.

missIdaho is not a bandwagoner. Never has been, never will be. She has her opinions, which tend to be rational and carefully thought out, and she expresses them. They never change as public opinion sways.

She is one of the most genuine people on this site, and she's the exact same in person.

Posted by: SofaKingGood Jan 31 2009, 06:55 PM

druff
whether vwls rolled ic or not, to me, is not the most disturbing issue to me here.
maybe it happened, maybe it didnt.
but what IS 100% fact is that the incident you keep bringing up...

a) happened 2 years ago from what i understand.
b) is none of your fucking business, or anyone else's for that matter.
c) doesnt serve to benefit NWP, yourself, or some mysterious victim.
d) is ONLY a vehicle for you to inflate your own ego at a time when NWP leadership's balls are in clear view day in and day out.

you do not come across as some kind of hero or champion.
you do, however, come across as petty, malicious, and cuntful.

when i first became a member here, i really thought you were someone to kind of admire.
oh, how the mighty have fallen.

also, you should know that PayforUSC and lexicon did NOT spam NWP with black cock for $20,
I did.
they didnt do it for any monetary gain they did it out of principle.
i have my principles as well, but m also a cheap whore.
i find it hillarious that you and micon thought it was just grand to spam cocks all over 4, but both of you start insta-menstruating when the shoe is on the other foot.
show some substance here, druff. give those two their access back and ban my acct forever if you want.

either way
its hofnigs cock, whatever

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 07:13 PM

You sounded rational on the radio, but are coming across as a blithering idiot here.

So FckVwls scamming my good friend for 11k isn't my business? Really?

Why was the fminc story anyone's business?

Why was the Justin Smith scam anyone's business?

Yet those two threads were the longest two (and most viewed) in NWP history.

Exposing scammers -- especially those once immensely trusted -- is the NWP way. Just because it's someone you personally like doesn't make it any different.

Whether it's Justin Smith, who comes off as an unsympathetic piece of shit, or Vwls, who has snowed naive young boys like you with phony sweetness, it's still the same animal. Maybe you'll come to learn that one day.

Thanks for admitting to spamming NWP for $20. You are now IP banned until you pay the $20 to NWP to use as a bounty in a radio tournament. If you never want to pay it, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Posted by: easternmh Jan 31 2009, 07:13 PM

Druff, No one cares really........LOL at those losses, looks like the Lions record

Posted by: brian622 Jan 31 2009, 07:14 PM

I spammed black cock for shits & gigs.

!Viva la Boris!

Posted by: Chinamaniac Jan 31 2009, 07:18 PM

Nah some sites will shut you off or cut your limits down to 200 a game which is virtually being shut off for betting very sharp stuff

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 07:23 PM

She already admitted that they won "less than 10k" (which means way more than 5k), and from what I understand, they won MORE than 10k.

So this discussion is moot.

Any way you slice it, there's no way all of the money was lost, which means Vwls stole it.

All of her messages deny stealing a single penny, so this proves her to be a huge liar.

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 31 2009, 07:27 PM

This is probably all right, but luckily the fact that you come off as such an obsessed jerkoff about it trumps every other detail involved.


you bring other peoples drama to the internet to rub in their face and than stand on top of the hill and roar like the geek that you are when you prove yourself to be most likely correct.

lolholocaust

Posted by: easternmh Jan 31 2009, 07:28 PM

Posted by: kirklaja Jan 31 2009, 07:31 PM

Posted by: TopTop Jan 31 2009, 07:35 PM

Why is icfishies being a bitch?

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 07:46 PM

Will you take my side on this one if I promise to talk you out of your next suicide attempt?

Posted by: ShizzMoney Jan 31 2009, 07:50 PM

http://www.truveo.com/I-Promise-I-Will-Never-Die/id/2855720623

Posted by: Weiss IS Nice™ Jan 31 2009, 07:55 PM

lol, you make yourself look worse every minute. Congrats.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 08:02 PM

Stop calling me juvenille names in every response to me, discuss this rationally, and I'll treat you with more respect.

Posted by: Missing Maryjane Jan 31 2009, 08:05 PM

this is so depressing...

Posted by: missidaho Jan 31 2009, 08:07 PM

You have to admit that was pretty funny. You left yourself open to that one. When you live out the dramas of your life on an internet message board you have to be prepared to get shit about it from time to time. Why do you think I stopped posting personal stuff on the internet? If I am going to make a mess of my life I'm going to do it the old fashioned way ...... behind closed doors.

I understand why you feel so protective of Angel. If you don't want to believe she has done anything wrong, thats fine. But you are gonna have to respect that those of us that have been screwed by her don't like her. Hopefully that won't keep you away from NWP. I've always had a soft spot for you and I hope when the dust settles from all this things will get back to being its usual fucked up self around here.

Posted by: pilotfish Jan 31 2009, 08:09 PM

Druff, you would never stand for being accused by a third party. You would require the person with the complaint to produce themselves and answer your questions. Give other people the courtesy you would require for yourself.

Also, enjoy this horse cock....

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 08:13 PM

Welcome to Fuzzy Math Saturday Night, starring FckVwls:

Wow.

Did Angel fail elementary school mathematics, or is she just trying to find any possible way to "prove" she isn't a scammer?

Okay, as much as I hate to do this, here I go again...

She is claiming the initial account was funded with 4k. Now she says it ran up to 12k for an 8k profit. That's actually not true -- they MADE about 12k on the initial account, but let's say she cashed out 12k, and that's all the money that was left.

6k was lost back at Bookmaker.

That leaves 6k.

Where did that go?

Give it up, Angel. It's over. You ripped icfishies off.

You know it.

I know it.

Everyone with a semi-functioning brain knows it.

Pay back your debts, apologize, and be done with it.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 08:14 PM

She's already responded to my accusations, and her own words prove her to be a scammer.

See my various mathemathical analyses above.

Thank you for playing.

Posted by: pilotfish Jan 31 2009, 08:19 PM

Didn't respond to my comment.

You would not stand for being accused by a person too pussy to sign on.

:readingcomprehension

Posted by: easternmh Jan 31 2009, 08:22 PM

He's on a major trip again.........part of the reason this place is a ghost town now

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 08:29 PM

Wrong.

I would respond either way.

Obviously I would prefer the person involved would argue it directly, but I would (and have in the past) still respond to accusations made by a third party if they were inaccurate. In fact, I would offer up all the proof I could to clear my name if there was any doubt, regardless of who was accusing me.

I think it is fairly obvious that I am direct contact with icfishies, and have not relayed bogus or inaccurate information. I even offered to 3-way anyone on with him, and let him verify that I am portraying things correctly.

The only reason icfishies would need to come out here himself would be if I am inaccurately presenting the story, which I'm not.

This is a story of a NWP-related rolling. The victim was a formerly-active NWP user who most people know. The perpetrator was a just-fired NWP mod who was (and still is) proclaiming her innocence. If ever a story is fit for NWP, this is it.

As I mentioned before, whether the perpetrator is an unsympathetic jerk-off (Justin Smith) or a popular, friendly woman (Vwls), the concept is still the same. Shenanigans went down, someone got scammed, the public should know. Period.

Posted by: goodeats Jan 31 2009, 08:31 PM

I think she is trying to claim that the portion of the SI cashout she spent was her share of the profits. It's a ridiculous argument.

Posted by: DanDruff Jan 31 2009, 08:34 PM

More weak excuses by Vwls on boris:

The above was in response to HugePair, who figured out (correctly) that Vwls was full of shit with her previous post, and that she was still leaving 6k unaccounted for.

So again, Vwls, let's look at this again:

According to you, account funded with 4k that was icfishies money turns into 12k.

You cash out 12k.

6k is lost back at Bookmaker.

Where did the other 6k go? You can't claim it's your profit, because only 2k TOTAL profit was made in such a scenario, and you only get half (1k) profit.

Yet 6k vanished.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE EXCUSES. YOU ROLLED ICFISHIES. PAY UP NOW.