LOL @ libel.
Anyway, for those that aren't following on Boris, here's what went down while I was sleeping:
1) Vwls woke up, found these threads, and responded with her usual BS indignation, again swearing that she rolled no one from NWP:
QUOTE(Vwls)
No idea what anyone is talking about - if I owe anyone money, it's in my personal life, nothing to do with NWP. I can personally guarantee you that I never did anybody dirty as a mod for that site - all money dealings were straight up and proper. No one is owed anything - no one was in any way deceived at any time. To even suggest it is ridiculous and outrageous and as I said before, I demand an apology, both personal and public.
2) She thought about it a bit further and realized that I may actually know something. She then posted the following weird message:
QUOTE(Vwls)
Hmmm maybe... Weird. But it can't be what Druff is posting about. I have a personal friend who happens to post on NWP once in a great while. But that has zero to do with NWP or my mod job... This person is my friend (real life) and has been to my house and hung out with my daughter. Totally non-NWP related.
Anyway, the story there is that he and I did each other a mutual favor where I opened an account in my name on a betting site so he could make a bunch of money (he was kicked off the site in his own name for pwning them too much, and the site offered the best lines for the type of betting he did). So he deposited some money on there, and I would log in and make his bets for him so they wouldn't recognize the IP as his. Is that shady? I don't really think it is, but even if it is, and you guys think it is, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH NWP. It was great for me because he was cutting me in on the winnings, and I was dealing with some heavy personal issues at the time (my mom had died and the funeral expenses, residual medical bills etc really kicked my ass blah blah blah) but I mean - this is shit so unrelated to NWP - I would seriously SERIOUSLY not believe for a minute that my friend would go running to Druff to talk about our personal lives - not possible. Will call him after work today though just to clear my mind because this Druff crap is bothering me so fucking much.
So she didn't roll the guy, but yet his name comes to mind when I mention a rolling. Interesting. Why did she think of him in the first place if she did nothing wrong?
3) GAMBLE-BOT strangely comes up with a lot of information about this matter. He posts the following:
QUOTE(GAMBLE-BOT)
Not confirming or denying. And I still love vwlls true or not.
-He had her set up a gambling account through her bank and info.
-He deposited money in it.
- She at some point cleaned out the account
-she promised to pay back
-he is rich
-he maintains that they were never personal friends, though they kept in touch since their "meeting"
-he maintains he met her on NWP and trusted her cause she was wellknown
-he maintains that he was hollering at her
-he drove to see her in Phoenix
-he believed they were going to get to stay together
-she renegged, and he didn't get any booty
-she hasnt paid him back
-the meeting and the rolling were two years apart.
-vwwls never promised sex but the guy was hopeful.....
Note that the above contains some right-on-target information about the matter, along with some horribly inaccurate info. However, it is the first detailed explanation given as to what was going on. I will separate the truth from the trash later in this post.
4) Someone else identifies the victim in question as icfishies, formerly active NWPer and sportsbetting aficianado. As seen in various pics posted around NWP, icfishies is also my personal friend.
5) Vwls, realizing that the jig is up, invents a horribly dishonest and warped story as to what occurred, in order to do some damage control:
QUOTE(Vwls)
Story is completely twisted here, but I will respond to the BS one line at a time:
-He had her set up a gambling account through her bank and info.
Not my bank, no. I just put it in my name and we logged on from my house only so his IP wouldn't be involved.
-He deposited money in it.
Right. Now mind you - none of this is Internet people's business, but since someone appears to want to create a public scandal out of it, I will tell the entire story. It's actually very boring and there is nothing scandalous. John gave me cash to deposit into the account (no one's bank was involved - I made the deposit at Walmart lol) and he also gave me some money up front to do this for him, which I spent on funeral and medical expenses in the wake of my mom's death. All that was known and agreed upon up front - he was confident he was going to win a ton of money, and he needed a clean account under a new name because the betting sites close you down if you win too much... so he wasn't worried about it.
- She at some point cleaned out the account
Here is where the story departs completely from reality. There was nothing in the account to clean out - nothing was ever cashed out of that account actually - only deposits were made. He simply had a bad run and lost his bets. We even put more money in at one point, which he lost as well. Would have continued on but he got really down on himself and said his betting was terrible and he was making poor decisions.Anyway all this is silly - I can post the transcripts of every bet and deposit from that site if that's what it takes to put this to rest.
-she promised to pay back
Pay back what?
-he is rich
Not really. John gets by OK, but he struggles like everyone else. He had a bad year or so actually, and was even considering a new line of work.
-he maintains that they were never personal friends, though they kept in touch since their "meeting"
Another ridiculous statement. Obv we were personal friends - we used to chat on the phone three four times a week - he would complain about the crazy women he was dating, we would talk about our lives, I shared my grieving with him over my mom - I mean - if that's not a personal friend, what the fuck is? This one statement is the gayest of all of them.
-he maintains he met her on NWP and trusted her cause she was well known
More bullshit - the trust we shared was built on a friendship - NWP had nothing to do with it.
-he maintains that he was hollering at her
LOL no. In all the time I've known John, not ONCE did he even suggest he was interested in me as anything more than a friend. Over a year or more of knowing each other, not once! Not even a hint of it. In fact, when he was driving out to my house to stay for a few days, I made sure to do the requisite male-female friendship thing even though I thought it entirely unnecessary in our case, and say - "now you know of course we are friends and there will be nothing sexual or anything" - and his response was "duh - you don't even have to say that with me" and I was like duh - I knew that. This was about as far from anything romantic as a friendship could be... come to think of it - that's why it was cool! We were close precisely because we could say anything to each other - you can't be like that with someone who is "hollerin'" at you.
-he drove to see her in Phoenix
Yeah so?
-he believed they were going to get to stay together
Idiotic. Unless he has a dual personality, this is complete rubbish.
-she renegged, and he didn't get any booty
No one reneged, and no booty was offered or exchanged. Nor was it ever asked for.
-she hasnt paid him back
For what? If John ever wants more money deposited in that sporting account, all he has to do is call me and we do the deed. He hasn't called me in months BTW... but I honestly thought it was because he was so depressed about his betting losses. He as much as said so several times. He gets really down.
-the meeting and the rolling were two years apart.
I don't even understand this statement. It makes no sense.
-vwwls never promised sex but the guy was hopeful.....
If that is the case, that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. If he wanted to get funky, he should have said so. DoH! This would make his whole persona with me a complete lie. Don't want to believe that - that would be sooo fucked up.
Was just talking to Weiss on MSN and he said he thinks John was secretly in love with me but too shy to ever do anything about it. This would explain why he got dejected and depressed conincidentally when I got married and why I haven't heard from him. But he said it was his betting problems thast were getting him down. Aslo, this theory would not explain his behaving in an opposite manner - the complete lack of romantic inclination with me, or the brutal twisting of the tale we are seeing here today.
If true, all I can say is wow man - sad sad sad. We got along so well, that had he said something about his feelings, I prolly would have been interested - I mean - I was single for more than a year and we were like best buddies! Would have been perfect timiing. Anyway, this is just Weiss' theroy - and now I'm talking out of my ass.
Sorry for the boringness of this scandal folks. But that's what happens when people manufacture something from nothing.
So now you're up to speed.
Vwls "couldn't figure out" what I was referring to. Then she suddenly figured it out, but strangely couldn't understand why I would be claiming that it was a rolling. (If it wasn't a rolling, how would it have come to mind the in the first place?) Then GAMBLE-BOT drops the dramabomb, and Vwls comes up with a convoluted and downright untrue way to explain everything.
Standard.
So now it's time to give you guys the REAL story, and separate the truth from the trash...
FACT: "Sharp" sportsbettors (bettors with a positive expectation) are often banned from sportsbooks when it is discovered that they are too good. This is very similar to card counters being banned from blackjack games. This has happened to all good sportsbettors, including reggiman and icfishies. What occurs over time is that these guys are eventually shut out from all (or most) reputable sportsbooks online, and need to resort to having other people create accounts for them in order to continue playing. This is quite standard.
FACT: icfishies and Vwls got to know each other through NWP, and struck up a friendship. The friendship was NOT of a romantic nature, nor did it have any sexual or romantic undertones. I know this because I talked to icfishies about it at the time. When he mentioned that he and Angel (Vwls) were talking fairly often, I asked if there was anything beyond just friendship. He told me that it was completely platonic, and that they just enjoyed talking to one another. I believed him then, and still do now, as he would have had no reason to lie to me about it.
FACT: Vwls was having some sort of financial issues in her personal life, and was in dire need of extra money. icfishies, being a nice guy, thought of a way he could help her while possibly making a bit of money for himself at the same time. He asked her if she wanted to sign up a sportsbook account in her name and be the one to actually place the bets (i.e. have a clean IP address).
He offered to front all of the starting money to her, thus making it a zero-risk proposition for her! If they won, she would get half of the winnings, and he would get half. If they lost, he would lose, and she would break even.
There was no way she could possibly lose, and she was more likely to gain, as icfishies is a +EV sportsbettor. At the same time, icfishies was taking 100% of the risk, yet only getting 50% of the potential profit. He wasn't doing this to make himself money. icfishies could have found far better spots. He could have gotten a far better deal for this (say, 10% of the profits taken out instead of 50%) from other people in his life who he knew and trusted. However, Angel needed the money badly, they were good friends, and he wanted to help her out.
I am now going to disclaim at this point that I am going to be throwing around some dollar figures, and they may not be 100% accurate. However, I promise you that they are close and definitely in the ballpark of what actually went down.
FACT: icfishies gave Vwls about $7000 in front money. She deposited $2000 initially into Sportsbook #1. They did well right off the bat, and the account ran up to about $14k, for a $12k total profit. Unfortunately, the book realized that Vwls was placing +EV bets (all being fed to her by icfishies), and they closed her account. However, she was allowed to withdraw all of the money, and did so. She now had $19k from the whole deal. $7k of it was icfishies' front money, and $12k was profit. Of that profit, $6k was hers, as per the agreement. This left her owing icfishies $13k of the $19k she had in her hands.
FACT: Rather than ask to be sent the $13k immediately, icfishies came up with another idea. It was the start of football season, and he suggested that she redeposit some of the money into Sportsbook #2, where they could bet +EV teasers. She put about $4k into Sportsbook #2, leaving her with $15k in her bank account. Unfortunately, teasers ran really bad that month, and the account went donkdown. However, icfishies knew she still had $15k left from the money that was withdrawn, so it was no big deal.
FACT: icfishies asked her to redeposit into the account. Vwls started to make excuses, and seemed to be stalling him. Despite their friendship and his complete trust of her, he started to get a bit worried.
FACT: After some more time passed, as the excuses mounted, icfishies knew there was something wrong. He confronted Vwls and asked her where the $15k was. She admitted to him that she spent it all on "personal things" going on in her life, and that the money was completely gone. This was complete theft. She was only holding the money, as the one to be depositing it to Sportsbook #2. It was never hers to spend, regardless of how much she may have needed it. Even worse, most of the $15k wasn't even hers. Of that money, $11k belonged to icfishies, while $4k belonged to her. The difference comes from the fact that icfishies put in $7k initially, so their actual profit at this point was only $8k, split two ways to $4k each. So spending $4k would still have been wrong, since she agreed to use ALL of the money on betting teasers. However, at least she could argue that the first $4k was techincally hers. The other $11k was not hers, and was straight up stolen.
FACT: Rather than freaking out and creating a thread entitled "Rolled: A Fckvwls Saga", icfishies calmly asked her what they could do to rectify this. She promised to make every effort to pay him back, and would start sending him money ASAP.
FACT: This occurred about 1 1/2 years ago. No money has been sent. Vwls predictably drifted away from their friendship, and seemed to be avoiding him. Regardless of whether or not the friendship was ruined, it was her responsibility to pay him back, especially after apologizing profusely and swearing she would make every effort in her life to get him the money ASAP. Yet he doesn't have a dime from her yet.
FACT: icfishies finally gave up chasing her and wrote it off as a loss.
FACT: icfishies did visit Vwls in Phoenix at one point. The visit was completely of a platonic nature, and I think it might have had something to do with giving her the initial $7k. I forgot exactly when this visit occurred, but I believe it was right before the whole sportsbetting debacle started. Nothing sexual happened between them. Neither of them tried anything. Nobody got rejected. Nobody had any expectations of romantic/sexual interaction.
FACT: icfishies was never "in love" with Vwls. They were nothing more than good friends at one point.
Vwls, I am very disappointed that you are outright making up lies about this whole matter, in order to make yourself look good. Let's review:
LIE #1:QUOTE(Vwls)
John (icfishies) gave me cash to deposit into the account (no one's bank was involved - I made the deposit at Walmart lol) and he also gave me some money up front to do this for him, which I spent on funeral and medical expenses in the wake of my mom's death.
FALSE! He did give her cash, but there was never "up front" money given in order to do this for him. She was already going to get 50% of the winnings with zero risk, so he didn't need to give her any money up front to make this a worthwhile exercise for her. The cash he gave her was
for 100% use of depositing into sportsbooks, and that was completely understood by both parties.
LIES #2 & #3:QUOTE(Vwls)
Here is where the story departs completely from reality. There was nothing in the account to clean out - nothing was ever cashed out of that account actually - only deposits were made. He simply had a bad run and lost his bets. We even put more money in at one point, which he lost as well. Would have continued on but he got really down on himself and said his betting was terrible and he was making poor decisions.Anyway all this is silly - I can post the transcripts of every bet and deposit from that site if that's what it takes to put this to rest.
TOTALLY FALSE! Vwls neglects to mention that there were TWO sportsbooks involved. The first book, which closed their account, saw the two of them making a $12k profit, and she withdrew $14k from it! It was only the second sportsbook where they never withdrew, but she only put about $4k back into that one. There was still $15k unaccounted for, and that money vanished because she stole it. She is offering to "post transcripts from that site" because there was never a withdrawal from the SECOND sportsbook. However, there WAS a $14k withdrawal from the FIRST sportsbook, and she also blew the remaining $5k of his front money.
And why didn't they continue? Was it because icfishies was down on himself? NO! It was because she stole the $15k they were supposed to have to continue betting with ($11k of which was icfishies' money), and there wasn't any more money to bet. How despicable to blame their ceasing of placing bets on the guy being "down on himself" when in reality it was because she stole all of the money in the bankroll!
One more thing. I want it known that icfishies did not "bring this story" to me in order to cause NWP drama. He is not involved with forums anymore and honesty hates crap like this. I knew about it because I am his friend, and it especially infuriated me for that reason. The guy got rolled big time, and Vwls has not lifted a finger to make things right in the 1 1/2 years since. As she kept claiming innocence with having no "shady dealings" and accusing me of lying, this eventually tilted me to make the post I did last night. I still was hoping we wouldn't have to air the entire story, but once GAMBLE-BOT posted a lot of the details, followed by Angel's response full of lies, obviously the cat was out of the bag.
Jan 30 2009, 12:09 PM
