YOU make the call, AA flat-call post-flop edition

Oh, and I don't think that making him turn it over is a dick move at all. In fact, he should just turn over the hand, not annouce K? Like you have pocket jacks or something. King what... He could have had 87 and said K trying to angle you to muck in disgust. It's only a dick move when you are the one that's called and he lost the pot and then you want to see their cards.

This looks like kings full or some kind of nine. A good player probably isn't going to raise AK on a board this dry. I will sometimes just throw away AA on the flop this deep to his raise, especially a raise of an overbet. You might level yourself into thinking the overbet induced a bluff, but when I misclick or something, I find that it's most profitable to just avoid that thinking, and fold if you would fold having made a normal bet, and possibly be even more likely to.

His shove on the turn is repping basically kings full or air. Some nines too. If this player plays hands like this often, it would be an easy call with AA, since he's repping an extremely thin range or a bluff, but without the knowledge that he's particularly aggressive, folding the turn is probably best if you call the flop, which I don't think I can say is bad.

wat

I agree it's not a dick move. I've made people "show or muck" in spots like that before. One time I made enemies with the entire table because I forced a pretty girl to either show or muck, and she got mad at me, which subsequently made all of the asskissers defend her. I was just so happy to win the 7k pot that I didn't feel like pressing it. Besides, "a king" pretty much gives me all the information I need. There's only a small difference if he did that with KQ versus K7.

I don't think his statement of "a king" was a lie. There's no way I (or anyone else at 10-20, for the most part) would muck until they actually see the hand that beats them. If he was caught doing that, there would be a huge scene at the table, and from what I could tell, the guy was at least a semi-regular there and wouldn't want to piss everyone off like that.

I definitely think the 20-something Asian kid had a King as well. Those types of players (the asians) do tend to play their top pair hands uber-aggressively.

On the subject of showing, I have no problem when I bet and get called, for someone to ask me to show my hand and then show it (not only that, I also table to prevent the muck angle shoot as well as it's good practice so the dealer can appropriately ship the pot). You called, you have a right to see.

However, there are people who hate showing their hand no matter what, even if they win the pot at showdown! I've had dudes at my local club refuse to show their kicker on the end and be very ardent in not showing, even though players like I and others keep yelling over and over, "It's TWO TO WIN, motherfucker."

Although in cash games, there is more of a gentleman's agreement for more than just being nice. If Druff makes the dealer flips the kid's hand over, he might get pissed and take his aggrodonk money to another table or game. Ditto with fish, you want them to feel comfortable and having a great time while losing their money to you, not alienated, so I'll take a little off my edge in terms of information in order to keep his money in play. In NL games, you want players who overplay top pair, med kicker at the table.

Addendum to my post: I thought villain post flop was PFR. Since it was the button caller, kings full is basically never showing up. Quad nines is more likely. However, since there're a lot more ways for him to have a nine than KKK99, I don't think it changes things enough that he's highly unlikely to have KK to change the jist of my opinion on this hand.

This hand might help clarify my point. My logic for this hand is that his range is so narrow, that a 2/4 reg will have air here a lot, because the K is a card that the nittiest will probably barrell with air.

I would never in a million years expect to be able to shove for value and get called here, I'm expecting nuts/air. I think the player who I played this hand against played pretty badly. Playing HU, his line is fine, but I think it's too thin in this six max situation and much more importantly, he'd be taking me off a hand where I'm very likely to have air.

PokerStars Game #23452091680: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2009/01/01 2:24:04 ET
Table 'Noviomagum' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: jcsacc ($701.40 in chips)
Seat 2: CloseTwin ($808.35 in chips)
Seat 3: THEDUTCH4141 ($412 in chips)
Seat 4: q009 ($396 in chips)
Seat 5: LK_Revolt ($765.30 in chips)
Seat 6: bberard34 ($426 in chips)
bberard34: posts small blind $2
jcsacc: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CloseTwin [Ad As]
CloseTwin: raises $8 to $12
THEDUTCH4141: folds
q009: folds
LK_Revolt: calls $12
bberard34: folds
jcsacc: folds
*** FLOP *** [3s 9h 7d]
CloseTwin: bets $20
LK_Revolt: calls $20
*** TURN *** [3s 9h 7d] [Kc]
CloseTwin: bets $40
LK_Revolt: raises $90 to $130
CloseTwin: calls $90
*** RIVER *** [3s 9h 7d Kc] [2h]
CloseTwin: checks
LK_Revolt: bets $240
CloseTwin: calls $240
*** SHOW DOWN ***
LK_Revolt: shows [Ah Ks] (a pair of Kings)
CloseTwin: shows [Ad As] (a pair of Aces)
CloseTwin collected $807 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $810 | Rake $3
Board [3s 9h 7d Kc 2h]
Seat 1: jcsacc (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: CloseTwin showed [Ad As] and won ($807) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: THEDUTCH4141 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: q009 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: LK_Revolt (button) showed [Ah Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: bberard34 (small blind) folded before Flop

What does "PFR" mean?

Preflop raiser.

Cheers.

People still call with just AK high on the flop?

The PokerStars games may be better than I thought.

I also agree with you on the villian's line on the river. People are sometimes way too greedy on the end. I had a guy at a 1/2 NL table at Mohegan last night bet JJ on the end versus my Tc9c on a Kc9s3d4c4d board (I folded and he showed lol).

Gabe Thaler mentioned in Cash Plays on Poker Road that sometimes it's just better to knuckle and take the pot.

Everyone floats now-a-days

You should fold to the flop raise if you are pitching that turn.

"3) I had $2500 left in my stack, and calling the all-in and winning the hand would bring me $4800, nearly a triple-up. So my implied odds were pretty damn good"

Implied odds don't mean this.



"Therefore, if he has KQ himself, he is probably quite confident with his hand, as he figures he beats or ties any hand I'm holding if I don't have a 9."

This is practically never the case in a multiway pot and requires a huge parlay of spastication.



"I'm not being results-oriented here"

Yes you are. You are obviously a very successful player but this hand is an abortion.

It's not bad to bet that river with JJ if he thinks you'll call with a nine. I assume the action did not go bet/bet/bet, so he might've had reason to believe you did have second pair or TT and might call.

A play can't be bad if there's a good reason for it.

Well to precursor this, and you obv didn't know the history between me and this villian in a prev hand. After a limp, I made it 11 to go OTB with KK. He calls from the SB, limper calls. Flop Ks9s4c. I bet 33, he calls QUICKLY. Turn is the Tc. Check-check. River is the 3d. With around 105 in the pot, he bets 25 dollars (lol) on the end and I call and he shows me QJo.

He also later goes broke in the session when he minbets AA UTG, gets 5 callers, then bets 1/4th of the pot and then calls a 200 dollar reraise on a 4h5h6s board, where the other guy obv showed him 78 for the nuts.

While I agree with your point vs villians who are perceptive and are loose-aggressive and bet small with a wide range (as well as versus a sheriff), this guy was NOT that type of villian and was obv a bit fishy and inexperienced, as evidenced by him showing JJ after I folded.

the conversations in this thread are pretty lol

You're right about one thing. I meant "pot odds" instead of "implied odds". But you knew what I was saying. I don't use those terms often because they are (for the most part) irrelevant in limit hold 'em, which I play a lot more often.

Figuring that he has a king in his hand is not a "huge parlay of spastication", and is quite reasonable given all of the circumstances. It was by no means a sure thing, but folding there to a flop raise is incredibly weak. And as you said yourself, if you are calling the flop, you are calling the all-in on the turn.