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Interesting 30-60 limit hand

DanDruff
post Mar 12 2009, 01:01 AM
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Limit Holdem $30/$60
Seat 1: jumby16 ($860)
Seat 2: DanDruff ($1,377.50)
Seat 3: stachehawk ($1,813)
Seat 5: Siggen ($1,926)
Seat 6: sohen13 ($1,866)
DanDruff posts the small blind of $15
stachehawk posts the big blind of $30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DanDruff [7c Ac]
Siggen raises to $60
sohen13 calls $60
jumby16 folds
DanDruff calls $45
stachehawk calls $30
*** FLOP *** [3c 5c 8c]
DanDruff has 15 seconds left to act
DanDruff checks
stachehawk checks
Siggen bets $30
sohen13 raises to $60
DanDruff calls $60
stachehawk calls $60
Siggen calls $30
*** TURN *** [3c 5c 8c] [8d]
DanDruff checks
stachehawk checks
Siggen checks
sohen13 bets $60
DanDruff raises to $120
stachehawk raises to $180
Siggen calls $180
sohen13 has 15 seconds left to act
sohen13 folds
DanDruff raises to $240
stachehawk calls $60
Siggen calls $60
*** RIVER *** [3c 5c 8c 8d] [9c]
DanDruff bets $60
stachehawk folds
Siggen calls $60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DanDruff shows [7c Ac] a flush, Ace high
Siggen mucks
DanDruff wins the pot ($1,377) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1,380 | Rake $3
Board: [3c 5c 8c 8d 9c]
Seat 1: jumby16 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: DanDruff (small blind) showed [7c Ac] and won ($1,377) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: stachehawk (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 5: Siggen mucked [8s Js] - three of a kind, Eights
Seat 6: sohen13 folded on the Turn


Here is the question for you:

Why was I still willing to cap it against multiple opponents with a paired board on the turn?
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GrenadaRoger
post Mar 12 2009, 01:43 AM
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how is this for a guess?

you figured the only threat to have made a full house, the player to your right (Sohen) folded on the turn--the other players you figured would have bet/raised the flop with a set considering they would have 7 outs to a house or better on the flop and then 10 on the turn (around 35-40% to win all told) and with that many in the hand raising would the flop would be +ev for them; thus you went ahead and capped the turn after Sohen folded...you had sized up your opponents and figured on that flop they knew enough to raise but were not tricky enough to have just called the flop with a set?

don't know if this is right, but i figure you won't tell your thinking until at least one person answers...so here's mine (yep, i am always useful as a bad example/straw man)
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DanDruff
post Mar 12 2009, 04:19 AM
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QUOTE(GrenadaRoger @ Mar 12 2009, 02:43 AM) *
how is this for a guess?

you figured the only threat to have made a full house, the player to your right (Sohen) folded on the turn--the other players you figured would have bet/raised the flop with a set considering they would have 7 outs to a house or better on the flop and then 10 on the turn (around 35-40% to win all told) and with that many in the hand raising would the flop would be +ev for them; thus you went ahead and capped the turn after Sohen folded...you had sized up your opponents and figured on that flop they knew enough to raise but were not tricky enough to have just called the flop with a set?

don't know if this is right, but i figure you won't tell your thinking until at least one person answers...so here's mine (yep, i am always useful as a bad example/straw man)


You're there for the most part.

Most people flopping sets on a 1-suit board are going to protect them, especially against multiple opponents. They are scared that the 4th of that suit might fall, and not fastplaying it could let someone in too cheaply. The lack of much raising on the flop (and instead a lot of cold-calling) indicated either club draws (drawing dead) or 1-pair type hands that they're confused how to handle (drawing thin).

Note that this is a short game, meaning that sohen wouldn't likely have cold-called pre-flop with 33, 55, or 88. He would have 3-bet. He was the only raiser on the flop, and I wasn't worried about him.

Obviously I didn't love the 8 on the turn, but I didn't hate it, either. That's because I figured at least one of them for an 8, which could get me extra action while still ahead. It was unnerving seeing all of the turn raising, but as you said, sohen folded, and the other two appeared to be calling with an 8 (or maybe an 8 plus a club draw), and not a set/2-pair on the flop. This allowed me to conclude I had the best hand.

Obviously any river was dangerous, as it could have made a full house for someone. Fortunately, the 9 was a safe card, and I won the pot.
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GAMBLE-BOT
post Mar 12 2009, 06:39 AM
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Sonny
post Mar 12 2009, 09:32 AM
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Thing is you flop the nuts and then see the Turn and River which reminds me of the old poker term "Nothing's never easy"...Unless you flop Quads...My guess is sohen had a medium pair...JJ or TT...Without a club and smartly gave up on the turn...But then again even a retard should muck...Good hand even though you had to sweat some...

Good thing no 6-7c out there which reminds me recently when having a nut club flush when the final board read...2c4c6c8h5c...Yep he turns over Tc3c...Man when that 5c hit the River I knew I was fried but had to call anyway...

Trip eights is an extremely weak hand to to be calling on the turn with...Sharing a community board you could still hit your "Howser" and lose (Some knucklehead could have 9s9h and nip you in the bud...Happens all the time)...Verse the hidden set...Many players don't understand that trips and sets are not the same thing...


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ship
post Mar 16 2009, 10:32 PM
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@SHIPdaCHIPS
QUOTE(DanDruff @ Jan 20 2008, 11:14 PM) *
There has always been some weird sexual tension between phantom and Martha.
Micon is lucky that there's a big ocean between you two.

I'm not sure which indignity is worse:
- Leaving your wife, shacking up with your former neighbor, and getting cheated on with a guy from your own poker forum, or...
- Getting ripped off for $12,000 by a guy with neck tattoos

Either way, Micon needs to be thankful that phantom isn't visiting his girl's land down under.

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ShizzMoney
post Mar 17 2009, 11:13 AM
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With the action on the flop, it's more likely the villians in this hand have an 8 and drawing to the boat rather than having a set on the flop. So yeah, I'd cap it.


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reggiman
post Mar 18 2009, 03:53 PM
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Also by the turn you know stache can't have 88 bc he wouldn't have 3bet you with 88 with the other left to act. Him 3 betting is going to most likely get rid of anything short of the nut flush from both of you. 55 and 33 are the only hands that beat you, and if you are slowing down in a multiway pot in this spot you shouldn't be playing sh lhe.

I'm also def at least raising the river once unless the board pairs or an Ace hits, I'd be worried about A8.
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